Big Bro is Watching You!!! (Open Thread)

eye_iris - Copy

Now we know for certain what we’ve suspected all along.  Obama is Big Bro.  Yesterday, the UK’s Guardian newspaper did the citizens of the U.S. a huge favor by revealing that our government has put out a dragnet for all of our digital communications. Don’t be fooled. It IS for ALL of our communications. They’re building a huge storage facility in Utah that will be “online” soon.

Under construction by contractors with top-secret clearances, the blandly named Utah Data Center is being built for the National Security Agency. A project of immense secrecy, it is the final piece in a complex puzzle assembled over the past decade. Its purpose: to intercept, decipher, analyze, and store vast swaths of the world’s communications as they zap down from satellites and zip through the underground and undersea cables of international, foreign, and domestic networks. The heavily fortified $2 billion center should be up and running in September 2013. Flowing through its servers and routers and stored in near-bottomless databases will be all forms of communication, including the complete contents of private emails, cell phone calls, and Google searches, as well as all sorts of personal data trails—parking receipts, travel itineraries, bookstore purchases, and other digital “pocket litter.” It is, in some measure, the realization of the “total information awareness” program created during the first term of the Bush administration—an effort that was killed by Congress in 2003 after it caused an outcry over its potential for invading Americans’ privacy.

But “this is more than just a data center,” says one senior intelligence official who until recently was involved with the program. The mammoth Bluffdale center will have another important and far more secret role that until now has gone unrevealed. It is also critical, he says, for breaking codes. And code-breaking is crucial, because much of the data that the center will handle—financial information, stock transactions, business deals, foreign military and diplomatic secrets, legal documents, confidential personal communications—will be heavily encrypted. According to another top official also involved with the program, the NSA made an enormous breakthrough several years ago in its ability to cryptanalyze, or break, unfathomably complex encryption systems employed by not only governments around the world but also many average computer users in the US. The upshot, according to this official: “Everybody’s a target; everybody with communication is a target.” …

William Binney was a senior NSA crypto-mathematician largely responsible for automating the agency’s worldwide eavesdropping network. …

Before he gave up and left the NSA, Binney tried to persuade officials to create a more targeted system that could be authorized by a court. At the time, the agency had 72 hours to obtain a legal warrant, and Binney devised a method to computerize the system. “I had proposed that we automate the process of requesting a warrant and automate approval so we could manage a couple of million intercepts a day, rather than subvert the whole process.” But such a system would have required close coordination with the courts, and NSA officials weren’t interested in that, Binney says. Instead they continued to haul in data on a grand scale. Asked how many communications—”transactions,” in NSA’s lingo—the agency has intercepted since 9/11, Binney estimates the number at “between 15 and 20 trillion, the aggregate over 11 years.”

When Barack Obama took office, Binney hoped the new administration might be open to reforming the program to address his constitutional concerns. He and another former senior NSA analyst, J. Kirk Wiebe, tried to bring the idea of an automated warrant-approval system to the attention of the Department of Justice’s inspector general. They were given the brush-off. “They said, oh, OK, we can’t comment,” Binney says.

Sitting in a restaurant not far from NSA headquarters, the place where he spent nearly 40 years of his life, Binney held his thumb and forefinger close together.

“We are, like, that far from a turnkey totalitarian state,” he says.

It’s a long and very comprehensive story from March 2012; please do read it.

Considering recent developments, including evidence that the Obama administration used the power of the IRS to target political enemies, the news that his administration is storing, for future use, all of our digital communications is downright frightening.

Does anyone seriously believe that this most partisan president in history will NOT use the full power of the government for political advantage and to maintain power for himself and his party?  Is he so moral that he will resist the temptation?

Just imagine what can be learned by mining the digital communications of political enemies.  Consider the evil possibilities and note that yesterday Eric Holder would NOT respond to a simple question: Has this administration data mined the communications of members of Congress?  He didn’t respond with a simple “NO!”  Instead, he said he would discuss it, but not in an open meeting.

Can we assume, therefore, that the Obama administration HAS spied on the representatives of the People?

Whether or not they use the information in prosecutions or, for example, targeted assassinations of potential terrorists, the fact remains that information is power and they have gathered massive amounts of information, without our knowledge, which they can mine and then use surreptitiously for any nefarious activity you can imagine.

This fact might explain some of the very odd things we’ve witnessed since Obama became president, such as the kid glove treatment he gets from the media and his lack of vetting.  This might also explain the total blackout on coverage of Sheriff Arpaio’s Cold Case Posse and the revelations that Obama’s birth certificate, posted on the White House computers, is considered to be a forgery by a respected document examiner (an expert so reputable that he’s been used by Obama’s own lawyers).

We’re told by the media today that the NSA is collecting only the “records” of communications, not the content.  HOWEVER, there are indications otherwise.  In a previous post, I presented evidence that the contents of all communications are captured.  Again from the UK media:

Are all telephone calls recorded and accessible to the US government? A former FBI counterterrorism agent claims on CNN that this is the case:

The real capabilities and behavior of the US surveillance state are almost entirely unknown to the American public because, like most things of significance done by the US government, it operates behind an impenetrable wall of secrecy. But a seemingly spontaneous admission this week by a former FBI counterterrorism agent provides a rather startling acknowledgment of just how vast and invasive these surveillance activities are. …

[Tim Clemente, a former FBI counterterrorism agent told the media:] 

We certainly have ways in national security investigations to find out exactly what was said in that conversation. It’s not necessarily something that the FBI is going to want to present in court, but it may help lead the investigation and/or lead to questioning of her. We certainly can find that out. … All of that stuff is being captured as we speak whether we know it or like it or not.” …

[He] added expressly that “all digital communications in the past” are recorded and stored: repeat that last part: “no digital communication is secure”, by which he means not that any communication is susceptible to government interception as it happens (although that is true), but far beyond that: all digital communications – meaning telephone calls, emails, online chats and the like – are automatically recorded and stored and accessible to the government after the fact.

To describe that is to define what a ubiquitous, limitless Surveillance State is.  …

[Former AT&T engineer Mark Klein revealed]  “that the NSA [National Security Agency] set up a system that vacuumed up Internet and phone-call data from ordinary Americans with the cooperation of AT&T” and that “contrary to the government’s depiction of its surveillance program as aimed at overseas terrorists . . . much of the data sent through AT&T to the NSA was purely domestic.”  …

Every day, collection systems at the National Security Agency intercept and store 1.7 billion e-mails, phone calls and other types of communications,” [according to a story in the Washington Post].

Indications are that the document revealed yesterday by the Guardian is simply a ROUTINE renewal of an on-going “dragnet”, which indicates that the “slip” by Mr. Clemente was accurate.

ALL of our digital communications are being stored, for future reference.  Reading between the lines, it seems apparent that this huge cache of data is being mined.  After the interesting tidbits are found, the Obama administration goes after a more targeted subpoena or warrant:  The FBI got a secret subpoena for the AP’s phone records and also a secret warrant for FOX reporter James Rosen’s records. WHY was that necessary since the FBI and the NSA, who share information, already had the records?  Because the law requires such subpoenas and warrants to be targeted, limited, and approved by a court.

However, the “dragnet”, apparently an abuse of a provision in the Patriot Act, was used to FIND “probable cause” by unconstitutionally trolling through the records of millions of ordinary citizens.  This is beyond outrageous and it’s obviously unconstitutional.

The Obama administration needs to  be called to account.


239 responses to “Big Bro is Watching You!!! (Open Thread)

  1. About Edward Snowden turning over documents, he states: “I carefully evaluated every single document I disclosed to ensure that each was legitimately in the public interest,” he said. “There are all sorts of documents that would have made a big impact that I didn’t turn over, because harming people isn’t my goal. Transparency is.”

    Question is: Does he have the scoop on BO? Now if he did, I wish that he would turn that over.

    • Maybe he does; maybe that’s why Barry spoke about his own “privacy” and how he’s going to be leaving sometime in the next 3 1/2 years.

  2. June 9, 2013

    “Late-Breaking: Kenya’s Leading Newspaper Reports Obama Born In Kenya Raised In USA”

    “A reader of BR/ORYR sent in the following. We’ve seen the other Kenyan-born Obama articles published throughout the years but this one appears to have slipped under the radar[?]. The complete article in question has been scrubbed however an excerpt from the 2005 article still appears in the Daily Nation’s search query. The Wayback Machine turned up no results. Instructions below…


    “Whoever has read Dreams From My Father, a biography and chronicle of the struggle of US Senator Barack Obama, a Kenyan born and raised in the United States, can testify that the state of life led by slum dwellers and street children in Kenya is chillingly pathetic…” – Via scrubbed Daily Nation article titled; “Is there hope for slum dwellers?””


  3. Rosemary Woodhouse

    The only comment missing…”to the place of my birth”. Great find, nonetheless.

    • Rmary, did Miri say she was taking leave? Where is she? Did I miss her saying she would be gone? Hope all is OK……. I’ve been checking by,but Have just kept myself out of the conversations for a bit. I read alot of those old Kenya born stories way back, but at the time,John Boener could have said he was Kenyan born and no one would have done anymore about it. The our Media would have made it all go away.. I woulld lov to hear O.s response to Alan Keyes though…that I never saw or heard. I recall some of the debates but not those statements. Maybe when I watched them those lines were already pulled.

      • Hey, alfy! I’m sorry that I didn’t comment until now. I have been sick as a dog. (I’m a LOT better now.) It was all I could do to throw up (pun intended) this post the other day, then I crawled back into bed, figuring that weekends are slow days for commenters, anyway. Flu, food poisoning, Norwalk virus. Whatever it was, it was gross and I’m glad that I couldn’t infect my friends here at WTPOTUS. I’m back now, so not to worry! Now I have to play catch up and figure out what’s going on with this NSA stuff. Listening to the radio, I began to come to the conclusion that this is another false flag ploy by Obama and/or the NWO powers-that-be to distract from all his other scandals. This one, of course, he’s going to lay at the feet of Bush. It sure took the media’s attention off the IRS, didn’t it? And the AP. If they’re spying on EVERYBODY, then it’s not so bad that they got Rosen’s and the AP’s stuff, is it? (In their warped opinion.) I don’t know what to make of this “leaker”, either. If what’s been said in the paper is true–that he didn’t graduate from high school, that he worked first as a security guard at the NSA and then suddenly is an analyst at the CIA with access to the biggest secrets, including (according to Glenn Beck) the countries that might do “hits” on our behalf–that makes NOT a whole lot of sense. Does it? What a coinkidink that he was recently stationed in HAWAII! Why not Seattle, too? 🙂

        Was he one of those whiz kid hackers like Assange? I’m not sure what’s going on. It will be fun now to read what y’all have said in my absence.

  4. Strange isn’t it, when the Benghazi issue gets a foothold and gains traction ‘something’ always comes up to take the attention away…

    • True, and I was thinking that Benghazi must be extremely serious. Can’t stop thinking about all of it with all of these other scandals.

    • I figure something in syria pertaining to Benghazi is probably on the horizen and they know it will help prove what was going on (at least partly) there. Need to ramp up diversions. ….Ragu….where have you been hiding yourself? I was thinking of you just yesterday….I like your handle “DABIGRAGU” and of course, that you surf too.


    Short of going back to using tin cans and a string, there’s not much we can do to prevent being SPIED ON, according to McClatchy:

    Few options for online users to avoid spying, experts say

    What can people do to protect their privacy from massive data-mining efforts by U.S. and other intelligence services? The answer is not much, short of going off the grid completely.

    Reports in The Washington Post and the Guardian newspapers this week allege that the government has been secretly accessing the phone records of tens of millions of Verizon customers, as well as online videos, emails, photos and other data collected by nine Internet service providers.

    Privacy advocates say most consumers long ago swapped privacy for convenience, but few realize the degree to which their digital activities are being tracked.

    The reality is that your personal information isn’t just shared with the government, but also sold to third parties such as online advertisers and app developers, said Jeffrey Chester, the executive director of the nonprofit Center for Digital Democracy in Washington. It’s all there in the privacy policy you probably didn’t read when you signed up for Facebook or Gmail.

    “We’ve crossed a digital Rubicon here; there’s no going back,” Chester said. “Big data is ruling our lives, and the big question is whether there will be any kind of limits here, protecting our consumer information and our democratic right to privacy.”

    Privacy policies for Google, Yahoo! and other Internet service providers explicitly state that the companies collect users’ data, such as names, email addresses, telephone numbers, credit cards, IP addresses, search queries, purchases, time and date of calls, duration of calls and physical locations.

    The policies say that companies may use that information to send you targeted advertising or, if necessary, to comply with requests from government authorities. …”

    Yep, and if you don’t “accept” then you don’t have internet access, do you? There oughta be a law. (Remember that cartoon?)

    • Remember way back, 2008 or 09 Obama met with a bunch of Internet gurus, Google,Gates, ect. ? I figure O. has been data mining from the early days….for votes and info to use in his campaigning….and of course this last election go round. But the fact that many on both sides don’t even see this as a problem lets you know , they think the public is ready to just except it as nothing unusual and move on. That just tells me how far gone both sides are. Their all a bunch of controllers.

      • Oh, yes. Of course they were. His pals and ex-co-workers from BIC are into data mining. Those kinds of associations go way back. Google got caught fixing search results in his favor and they blamed it on a “rogue” employee sitting in a cubicle, unsupervised. Remember? My gosh, that was way back at TD’s, iirc, ’cause I’ve looked for our discussion of it here and it ain’t here. So the meme about “rogue employees” goes way back, too.

  6. If Scooter Libby does it, it’s treason and a crime. If an Obama guy does it? It’s “may have misled:”

    NSA Director May Also Have Misled Congress About Data Collection

    The Director of the National Security Agency may have also misled Congress about the NSA’s phone and Internet surveillance programs that were revealed this week.

    In March of 2012, Keith Alexander, the NSA Director, testified at a House hearing on surveillance issues and, according to Forbes, denied at least 14 times that the agency engaged in intercepting the phone and Internet records of Americans. Earlier this week, Breitbart News uncovered testimony from another administration official, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, in which Clapper denied that the NSA collected “any type of data” on Americans.

    Like Clapper’s, Alexander’s testimony came before this week’s revelations about the agency’s PRISM program and the court orders the federal government has used to force Verizon to turn over the domestic and international phone records of all of its customers. …”

    Whoops! 14 times he “misled” Congress, the representatives of We the Peeps. Clapper, we know, has no credibility. Remember that infamous video where Brennan speaks for Clapper who has just “misspoken” about something that he’s typically clueless about? He was so obviously prevaricating (aka lying) when he said that to Congress. Scratching his forehead sort of gave it away.

    Note: That’s a DEMOCRAT that Clapper’s lying to. Wyden asked if the NSA collects “ANY TYPE OF DATA AT ALL on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans” and Clapper says, “NO, sir!” (“Not wittingly.” I suppose we’re to believe that the NSA is WITLESS when they “Hoover up” everything.)

    This is the SENATE and Clapper is “misleading” the representatives of We the People. Can you spell IMPEACH HIM NOW? Here’s the blast from the past:

    • I didn’t realize (hadn’t finished reading the article) that the questions to Alexander were in regard to that WIRED magazine article that I cited in my post. 14 times he specifically lied and implied that WIRED is wrong.

      “Rep. Johnson: Does the NSA intercept Americans’ cell phone conversations?

      Director Alexander: No.

      Rep. Johnson: Google searches?

      Director Alexander: No.

      Rep. Johnson: Text messages?

      Director Alexander: No.

      Rep. Johnson: orders?

      Director Alexander: No.

      Rep. Johnson: Bank records?

      Director Alexander: No.

      Rep. Johnson: What judicial consent is required for NSA to intercept communications and information involving American citizens?

      Director Alexander: Within the United States, that would be the FBI lead. If it were a foreign actor in the United States, the FBI would still have to lead. It could work that with NSA or other intelligence agencies as authorized. But to conduct that kind of collection in the United States it would have to go through a court order, and the court would have to authorize it. We’re not authorized to do it, nor do we do it.

      Alexander’s testimony seems to contradict details about the PRISM program related in the Washington Post, which claimed the agency has direct access to the servers of leading American technology companies like Apple, Facebook, and Microsoft to extract data and trace the online movements of Americans in real time. …”

      It all depends upon what the meaning of “intercept” is. If the companies turn it over to them, is that an “intercept”? If they allow them access to their lines, is that an “intercept”? Oh, how too cute by half are they! “Clintonesque” doesn’t do them justice.

      They KNOW what the Congress and the Senate are getting at when these questions are asked. They KNOW the spirit of the law, even if they’ve convinced themselves that they can do an end run around the language of the law (and the Constitution).

      They deliberately LIE, just as Shulman “misled” when he said he went to the WH (157 times?) for the Easter Egg Roll.

    • Check out this stupidity. Clapper’s excuse for lying to Wyden:

      “… The director of national intelligence, James Clapper, said in an NBC interview that he had responded in the “least untruthful manner” possible when he denied in congressional hearings last year that the NSA collected data on millions of Americans.”

      KNEW he was lying! They should have, too. I wonder if We the People can use that defense in court if we lie under oath, or perhaps if we lie on our tax returns? We answered in the least untruthful way possible.

      A lie is a lie is a lie, Jim. Didn’t your mom tell you that?

      Clapper should be prosecuted for lying to Congress. Holder, according to Judge Napolitano, whom I heard on radio this morning, should also be prosecuted for lying to the court to get that warrant for James Rosen’s phone records. Napolitano said that ANY OTHER LAWYER would be DISBARRED for that offense. So we have an attorney general who lied under oath to Congress and who also lied to a court to get a warrant under false pretenses, and who should be DISBARRED. Amazing.

  7. NOBEL….. PEACE…. PRIZE ? ….. HELLO!!!!
    Standing UP for “OUR” LIBERTY


      Oh Please… Aljazeera: Edward Snowden’s Leaks Fit Into Modernist Reading of Jihad

      … Let us assume, for the moment, that National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden is the person he’s portraying himself to be: not merely a patriot, but a humanitarian who’s given up all the trappings of a successful life to ensure that “the federation of secret law, unequal pardon and irresistible executive powers that rule the world that I love are revealed even for an instant”.

      The 29-year-old Snowden, who leaked information on secret US government surveillance programmes such as PRISM and “Boundless Informant” to the Guardian, is certainly right to focus on the danger posed by the Obama administration’s surveillance policies, and the “global war on terror” they serve, not merely to US democracy but to “the world” more broadly as well. The United States has been engaged in a jihad of global proportions not for the past ten years, but for well over a century. As with all empires, Islam’s included, the US jihad started small, but spread rapidly once the political and economic conditions in its core and peripheries came into proper alignment.

      And as with other empires, the US jihads had their roots in the most offensive of ideologies, which justified its spread as both inevitable and good, while – not surprisingly – viewing any opposition as irrational, bad, and justly subject to suppression by any means necessary. As the 19th century Protestant preacher and arch-imperialist Josiah Strong put it, the emerging American empire was destined by God to rule the earth, everyone else must prepare for a “ready and pliant assimilation” or become “extinct”. Islam’s great conquerors tended to be a bit more generous, at least rhetorically…”

      Grain of salt. He has a “narrative”, too. All that he gave up. His big salary, his lovely HAWAIIAN existence. I’m staying on the fence on this one–NOT THAT I AGREE WITH THE DAMNED NSA SPYING. He could be a planted distraction. I suspect Assange and Manning, too. Obama was against this anti-terrorism stuff from the get-go and we can guess why. Now he’s going to be leaving in the next few years. He needs to dismantle it and he needs a reason to do it, after having turned it to his own purposes and advantage. IF he leaves, as Rush pointed out by quoting Maxine Waters, that’s in question. That HUGE unprecedented database with information on EVERY individual.

      • Another POV:

        John Bolton: Edward Snowden Is Guilty of “Worst Form of Treason”

        … Former U.S. Ambassador John Bolton told Bruce Wolf and Dan Proft on WLS that he thinks admitted leaker Edward Snowden, is guilty of treason:

        “Number one, this man is a liar. He took an oath to keep the secrets that were shared with him so he could do his job. He said said he would not disclose them, and he lied. Number two, he lied because he thinks he’s smarter and has a higher morality than the rest of us. This guy thinks he has a higher morality, that he can see clearer than other 299-million 999-thousand 999 of us, and therefore he can do what he wants. I say that is the worst form of treason”.”

        So according to the Glenn Beck theory, Bolton is a progressive. We’re back now to wondering whom we can believe or trust. I always admired Bolton. Of course, he may be speaking about the NSA programs AS HE REMEMBERS THEM and not as they have morphed under Obama. Who is this Snowden guy? (Name sounds English, does it not?) A guy with only a GED who somehow ends up in security at the NSA and then in computer intelligence at the CIA? Don’t they recruit COLLEGE GRADS? How does this guy end up where he is, with the backstory he has? It reminds me too, too much of Barry. Certainly it’s an unlikely path. He has to state he didn’t vote for Barry but HOPED Barry would be different from Bush. He voted “third party” he says, which means … who? And he just “comes forward” as they claim they’re going after the leaker. Interesting, imho. Forgive me for being a suspicious skeptic. Something about the Obamanation has warped my faith. Through the Looking Glass and into the Land of Oz.

        • ” … Background: Born June 21, 1983, he grew up in Wilmington, N.C., but later moved to Ellicott City, Md., he told The Guardian. His mother, Wendy, is the chief deputy clerk for administration and information technology at the federal court in Baltimore, a court official told NBC News. His father, Lonnie, is a former Coast Guard officer who lives in Pennsylvania, the Allentown Morning Call reported. Edward Snowden said the only thing he fears from outing himself is the “harmful effects on my family.”

          Education: He did not complete high school. He told The Guardian that he studied computers at a community college and obtained a general equivalency degree. A spokesman for Anne Arundel Community College confirmed that a student with the same name and birth date took classes there, from 1999 to 2001 and again in 2004 and 2005. [Gee, whatever happened to PRIVACY? OBAMA’S RECORDS PLEASE?]

          Military service: He spent four months in the Army reserves, from May to September 2004 as a special forces recruit to a 14-week training course, the Army said. “He did not complete any training or receive any awards,” an Army statement said. No other details were given, but Snowden told The Guardian he was discharged after breaking his legs in an accident.

          Government work: His first job with the National Security Agency was as a security guard, and the next stop was an information-technology job with the CIA, which stationed him in Geneva in 2007, he claimed. He said he left the CIA in 2009 to work for private contractors, including Dell and Booz Allen. Through his job with Booz Allen, he was assigned to NSA offices in Japan and, more recently, Hawaii. Booz Allen said he has been an employee for about three months. He told reporters he made about $200,000 a year. [Most people with only a GED and some community college classes (if he passed) make that kind of money.]

          A real estate sign stands in front of a home in Waipahu, Hawaii, Sunday, June 9, 2013, where Edward Snowden, source of disclosures about the U.S. government’s secret surveillance programs, lived with his girlfriend until recently. A Hawaii real estate agent says Snowden and his girlfriend moved out of the home near Honolulu on May 1, leaving nothing behind.

          Hawaii: He briefly lived in a 1,559-square-foot rented home on Oahu, where neighbors said he and his girlfriend, who has not been named, kept to themselves. “They just say, ‘Hi’ and ‘Hello’ in the morning,” Angel Cunanan told NBC station KHNL. “He mentioned that he worked for the government. [No, a private contractor is not the government. Why is this type of thing outsourced?] Local residents said the couple never really unpacked before they moved out May 1, after the owner decided to sell the house, the Associated Press reported. …”

        • Is his name really Barrett Edward or Edward Barrett Snowden? Is this some scam to defame Ron Paul and thereby Rand Paul? I’m just throwing things out there.

          • Another from GP:

            High School Dropout Edward Snowden Made $200,000 a Year With NSA …Update: He Shopped His Story Around

            then GP links to this one:

            The Resume of NSA Leaker Edward Snowden: Stunning

            I’d hate to be in the Public Relations department at government contractor Booz Allen Hamilton this weekend. It’s not just the fact that Snowden is/was a Booz employee.

            Booz Allen Hamilton, Edward Snowden’s employer, is one of America’s biggest security contractors and a significant part of the constantly revolving door between the US intelligence establishment and the private sector.

            The current of director [sic] of national intelligence (DNI), James Clapper, who issued a stinging attack on the intelligence leaks this weekend, is a former Booz Allen executive.

            And it’s not just that DNI Clapper is an ex-BAH exec and his statement is just a tad embarrassing. …”


          • Miri, I hear you loud and clear on all fronts. It was probably a good idea for him to be a security guard first. You get to read lists and data and check out who’s coming and going. OJT

            hmmmm, did he carry a gun, too?

            surveillance. reminds me of that place in Houston. I saw somewhere to day that the IRS put in requisitions for spy devices – ordered on Friday, for receipt on Monday:


            Glad to know you’re feeling better. 🙂

            • TY. All my friends keep me feeling better. I do think it’s very curious that this guy worked at NSA, then CIA, then suddenly he’s at this contractor where within weeks he’s taking supposedly top secret documents. (How does a low-level guy like him, a flunkee from the military, a high-school dropout, with only community college credits, get hired there and make so much money?) He sounds to me like a CIA plant, sent to that company to do exactly what he did. Why? Because they have outsourced these functions so they had to go there to perform the “leak”, IMHO. The WSJ today talked about how it’s questionable that they outsource this stuff (as I said yesterday) and wondered how it could be that so many people (millions) have the clearance to access these types of records. They also said, which defies common sense, that he was hired because he had specialized training and expertise that’s hard to find in the government. Say what? We’re supposed to believe this? That some guy who was a high school dropout, a military failure, who took community college courses, has EXPERTISE that’s not available anywhere else? What an insult to the thousands of college grads with bachelor and masters degrees in computer science. Don’t get me wrong. Community colleges have good programs but they don’t give out bachelor degrees. Certificates and maybe associates degrees, but we’re supposed to believe they couldn’t find ANY better qualified guy to work in HAWAII for $200,000?!!! I don’t buy it. Whoever he is, he was on a mission. Which means that this “leak” was a designed one. For what purpose? That’s what remains to be seen. Maybe simple distraction. Maybe to get rid of the Patriot Act programs because maybe it’s all going south and they truly do fear that someone who’s a patriot is going to look at all the communications of those who are NOT patriots. If you get my drift. On the other hand, he could have been sent from abroad by someone who doesn’t like the massive storing of this information, by countries that don’t like our near monopoly on the Internet (remember how they want to take away our control over domain assignment?), etc. They have a valid point: what can they learn to use to blackmail all the other governments in the world, with access to so much data? What can they learn to use to blackmail everyone here in this country, including but not limited to our very own representatives (which may explain much of what we see today in terms of complicitness)? Whether or not they “hoover” up all this data to use for prosecutions, the FACT remains that they can surreptitiously and secretly data mine the information for OTHER PURPOSES that we will never know about, except as we see the evidence, the tip of the iceberg so to speak, when we see how inexplicably our “representatives” behave, against the law and the Constitution.

  8. The jury is still out for me too. 🙂

    • We trust no one and we verify everything that we possibly can. After Sandy Hook, after Boston, after 2008, I trust NOTHING.

    • You see how pat it is? No high school graduation explains no existence on “classmates”. No news article about his graduation. Does he exist under the name given? I find his “mother” Wendy, but no Edward with her. A Lonnie and a Lonnie Jr., but no Edward. Of course, we know that those people searches are full of “errors”, such as Barry’s hundreds of SS#s. Isn’t it at least just a little curious that he suddenly shows up, admits he’s the “leaker”, is hiding out in Hong Kong just as Barry is meeting with the Chinese about “cybersecurity”, as the “scandalanche” is gathering steam, AND this GED-holder, with maybe come college credits (as his community college is happy to tell us!), ends up making over 200 GRAND, living in HAWAII (again, why not Seattle?), working for a company that’s at least tangentially connected to that dunce Clapper? Not to mention that when you listen to him, he sounds like the most literate guy on Earth. So well spoken for a GED holder, who sounds like he flunked out of Special Forces. He sounds, imho, if nothing else, like another of those smart-ass, self-involved, self-proclaimed geniuses the likes of which work for Google, OFA, not to mention Julian Assange and perhaps even MI-6. (Or are they on 7 yet?) Somebody on that Doug Ross link said he sounds like an actor. Well … Well trained like Barry the NLP professional, so long as he has TOTUS? I’m just sayin’.

      So are they trying to stop these programs, all of them, in order for the unthinkable? Somebody needs an excuse to innoculate somebody for “allowing” the next big one? btw, are you getting as sick as I am of hearing that “we haven’t been hit since 9/11?” SINCE WHEN? I thought we had Boston, not to mention Ft. Hood.

      • The more I think about this, the more suspicious I become. This has TOTALLY distracted the media from the Scandalanche and put ALL the attention on the NSA “scandal” (it’s not new) which gives Barry an opportunity to change the discussion from HIMSELF and HIS ABUSES of power to programs that began under BUSH. So BUSH is the focus of evil. BUSH started this spying. And everybody (Barry hopes) forgets that IRS-gate is on BARRY and on his watch. Just as is BARRY’S spying on the AP and Holder lying to get a warrant for James Rosen’s phone records.

        Now the media changes from outrage over BARRY spying on THEM to generalized outrage over the NSA spying on EVERYONE (with SHARED BLAME, but mostly BUSH AND CONGRESS), which is their meme. The government won’t have to do their “leak” investigation, which might remind everyone of Barry’s intrusion into the MEDIA’S records, because Snowden conveniently came out. Of course, they OUGHT TO DO THE INVESTIGATION, anyway, because how do they KNOW it WAS he? ANY accomplices?

      • Everything you said, Miri!

        ~ somwhere on the the thread i saw it mentioned Bolton is a progressive. i believe that; they all are. just some are old school new order and others are muslamic new order. but they all need these tools. “BELO” be on the lookout, as they’d say, for anyone who defends PRISM.

        Fourth Amendment

        The full text of the amendment is:

        The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

        This Bill Forbids it. There’s nothing to debate, except it belongs to Americans and to no other.

        • Exactly. I heard someone on radio say the obvious this morning: That it doesn’t MATTER what the “law” says about this program. It CANNOT be “legal” except in the sense that Congress BELIEVES that they passed a law to allow this, but NO LAW can change the CONSTITUTION. They don’t have the power to pass ANY LAW that supersedes the 4th amendment; that law is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. If Rand Paul succeeds in getting it before the SCOTUS, it SHOULD BE struck down.

      • We probably haven’t really be hit since 9/11,,,at least by anyone but ‘yours truley”.

        • Poor ole Joe McCarthy.If he’d only had all this hi -tech crap, he could have been so much more thorough with his interorgations of agents against the US. He wouldn’t have needed all those hearings, he could have just listened in to thousands of commies conversations and saved all the evidence. It’s such ashame , he’s not around today. In his time he was BRANDED as our enemy ,snooping on us americans, but you think today, he’d be a HERO, hmmmm? It’s likely today, he could just do a little spying, then call up Drones incorporated and just do away with those nasty ole communistas….guess, though he’s still considered on the wrong side of the law though.

  9. June 10, 2013

    “Sheriff Joe Investigator Responds To Rubio; Plan To Take All The Way To White House”

    “Chief Mark Kessler Interviews Sheriff Joe Lead Obama ID Fraud Investigator Mike Zullo”

      • Interesting. Zullo says in the first video that the law enforcement guys saw things in the document that even they hadn’t seen yet. The chief says this is “serious stuff”, “we have been duped,” and he had “no idea.” Barry “cannot beat this.” “The evidence is indisputable.”

        Zullo says they have “tried to make it public.” They’re going to take it to the “WH steps.”

        The chief talks about why the DHS is “sucking up” all the ammunition. They’re “bracing for something”, like when this comes out, because of all the “p-o’ed people” who will be out there. Zullo says we have to have a “peaceful resolution” because SWAT teams don’t lose. Don’t “create the dynamic,” because “we gotta do this peacefully.” The sheriff says “it’s a very serious situation. … The birth certificate is a fraud. … There’s a lot more going on.” (DUH!) Obama will “lie to you with a face with a smile” and these “offenses … border on treason.” The sheriff says Obama couldn’t “pass a urine test to be a janitor at the airport.” Zullo talks about how Barry has four different aliases, even though he didn’t disclose that to the IL bar. (FOUR? Do we know them all?) Zullo says it’s not illegal to use another name, though. He just learned that “loophole”.

        Zullo asks: How do you know who Barry’s parents really are? You don’t know. You’re shown a picture and you’re told. You’re expected to believe it but Zullo could do the same and it might not be true. He suggests that maybe they’re experimenting to see how far they can go.

        • Second video: Zullo’s embarrassed to admit that he had no idea earlier that there’s NO VETTING by any government organization of ANY candidates. He was told the way it’s done is through the Constitution, the opposition, and the media. The Constitution is being modified without an amendment, in his opinion. Changing the meaning of the “natural born citizenship” phrase. The media is all for Barry. There’s nothing left for the opposition to do. Zullo says for a fact that Hannity is “on a leash”. They got rid of Napolitano’s show because they didn’t like what he was saying. 17% of FOX is owned by the Saudis. There’s “Saudi influence behind Obama.” To have people discussing laws in the US to make it illegal for people to speak against Islam is scary, according to Zullo. “Fundamentally” changing America means to “uproot” everything we stand for. The chief says the fraudulent BC is just “the tip of the iceberg” and “they’ve been working up to this point for a very, very long time.”

      • Comment’s at ORYR:


        “I just got to the part – 42:00 – Kessler said Obama is not Kenyan, not American and your blood is gonna boil. Starting at 41:15 Kessler says that what the public was shown and what law enforcement was shown are two different things.

        When you find out what he is, your blood is gonna boil.

        Sounds like Saudi to me.”

        “Key Kessler Radio Show quotes:

        Not an American

        Not a Kenyan

        Not his real parents

        No record of him in the US for first 5 years of his life”

        • omigosh great interview. !!

          they keep saying we don’t know who “this guy” is but they have narrowed it down that he’s neither American nor Kenyan. makes me think they DO know. WTP really never bought into the “Kenyan” thing either. He’s photoshopped in so many of those pictures, etc.

          chilling and blood boiling!

          • I mentioned on another thread…conceived in a petri dish? A clone? I never believed his family was his family ,as in Mother, Grandparents. Pretty sure many know who he is/ what he is?

      • Easier to listen to YouTubes at link below – BlogTalk having problems.
        June 10, 2013

        “Bombshell: Police Chief Mark Kessler On Obama ID Fraud; Obama Not Kenyan Or American”

        Go To: 14:15

        • LET’S …………. ROLL !

        • (mentions parents):

          Part 4: “Chief Kessler Goes Nuclear Over Obama ID Fraud”

        • “If Congress doesn’t do something about this … Obama is a fraud … He’s not an American; he’s not even Kenyan. When you find out what he is, your blood is gonna boil. … His wife’s American and his children are American, but he’s not.” No record of Barry in the US before age 5. (What record is there AT age 5?)

          So how do they know what the hell he IS? That implies they have SOMETHING identifying him.

          Barry told us he’s a “desi”. He could be a born-Indonesian, as we’ve speculated before. Adopted by “Ann” and Lolo.

          He doesn’t say that we’ll have boiling blood when we find out WHO he is; he says when we find out “WHAT” he is. So that kind of seems to put to rest the idea that he’s Malcolm’s son. That’s a “who” not a “what”, imho. If he were, then he’d be an American (sad to say). If he’s not Kenyan, then as we always suspected, that Kenyan family is bogus. What is he? WHAT is he?

          He doesn’t LOOK Saudi to me. Not completely. He’s definitely mixed. There are “blacks” in Indonesia. Blackish, anyway. As the people he knew back then thought he was–from Papua or Ambon or Irian Jaya. Remember the isle of Huwai?

      • WordPress is being an ass today. It disappeared one of my comments about this video. I listened to this halfway through and then my comment disappeared. Kessler says “Barry” should be arrested and sent to Guantanamo. He’s a “fraud”. A “huge fraud.” I was opining about what Zullo said about those “port of entry” records. He speculated that 8/4/61 could be the date Barry arrived here, not his birthdate, which implies that he knows he wasn’t born that day. Kessler says they’re giving Congress one last chance to do something with the evidence, but he doesn’t expect him to.

        41:30 The BC is the tip of the iceberg. Barry’s not an American and not even Kenyan. He says the American people will go CRAZY if Congress doesn’t do something about this. There’s NO RECORD anywhere in this country of Barry prior to when he’s five. When you find out WHAT he is, your blood will boil. His parents are NOT his REAL parents and he’s seen the evidence of that.

        So WHO ARE his parents? (I asked that.) Does Zullo have evidence of who his parents really are? This would suggest that he’s adopted, at best. They’ve never adjudicated whether or not a foreign-born kid adopted into the US, given a new BC, is or can be considered a NBC. It would DEFY logic, if so. If born in a foreign country to foreign parents? No way could that child be a NBC. If there’s no record of him here until age 5, then he wasn’t adopted at birth by Americans, could he be?

        Kessler says Barry should stand trial for treason because he’s a fraud.

        Someone from the CCP called in. They haven’t shown all their information yet. The investigation is still on-going and more information is coming in. It won’t be revealed soon, even next month. It will be a while past then when the information is taken to Congress. The CCP guy says there’s misinformation out there that there will be some gathering run by Kessler but there’s not. If and when the CCP goes to Congress, Kessler might bring people there to support them.

        • I listened to these videos last night and have been thinking about them since. Several thoughts occurred to me. Wonder if Zullo has looked into the Chester Arthur story for similarities? For a long time, I’ve seen some parallels of sorts. The Brooklyn Eagle reporter insisted Chester was born in Canada, but he was born in Vermont. His father’s citizenship was the issue. Chester altered dates of birth for himself and his father, if I remember correctly. Chester’s older sister was born in Canada…Dunham, Canada. Chester hid, altered, then destroyed many of his personal papers. It’s not an exact match, but it has a template sort of feel to it…or parallels were drawn as a taunt, to get people to see the similarities, then ridicule them. Hide in plain site. If nothing else, what Chester did may give them insight on other things to consider.

          I also wonder about Kessler. He’s not happy, but he strikes me as something of a loose canon. The information he told during the phone call has not been released by Zullo. Zullo has alluded to this as an extension of not knowing anything about the man, but he hasn’t come right out and said what Kessler did. Either Kessler told more than he should have or Zullo got him to let it slip to gauge reaction or to possibly force a reaction. It’s not unheard of in an investigation to either let slip pertinent info or to put out wrong information to get a reaction. I don’t know which it is, but it made me think about the bigger picture.

          I keep going back to why? Who? What is the goal? We pretty know a general goal, which I believe is realistic. But what are the benefits of slamming the public with scandal after scandal now when everyone has studiously ignored numerous violations and oddities so far? Who benefits by bringing down the administration? What’s the plan?

          Soros’ MO has been to destroy the financial stability of a country under the guise of bringing ‘democracy’. He accomplishes this by stressing the system to the point of breaking and to supposedly reveal the corruption of government. Okay, eliminate the democratic process stuff. He’s not working to free us from tyranny…theoretically. I seriously doubt his goal is too expose the corruption just because he’s such a great guy. What happens when the system is brought down? What’s the goal? IMO, it’s to stress the people from turmoil, attacks, riots, etc. Alinsky tells us that when the ‘leader’ is found out and removed, the community organizers hit the street to incite riots. The deposed leader will tell them it’s because the bad people don’t want them to have anything; they want them to be poor and not have rights. He’ll tell them he did it for them, because he cares about them and the other people obviously do not.

          When the handbasket to hell we’re riding in catches fire, the people who created the problems over decades will then swoop in and ‘save’ us. We’re already hearing it from a few select places. The Constitution failed. The Grand Experiment failed. We need a more modern Constitution, like Germany or France…since they’re doing so well and all. And because there is such a breakdown in order, the UN will have to assume governmental functions until a new government can be installed. For our safety, of course, and to secure our rights and to clean up the corruption. Disarmament too, of course, for our safety. A new monetary system will have to be installed to prevent this from ever happening again. It’ll be best to have just one global currency so all these currency wars and greed can never cause such chaos again. The goal, IMO, is to destroy the Constitution, pretty much obliterate sovereignty and install an interconnected governmental system administered mainly through the UN, with local ‘governors’ or something similar. We may even be allowed to think we vote for them. I’m sure there are variations of this overview, but that’s it in a nutshell.

          All this ties together. I’m just not sure who is in on the plan and who is just a useful idiot. These people are far too sloppy. That makes me wonder… Arrogance? Or just part of the plan to make us think we’ve won a victory while manipulating us toward their goal? I don’t know, but my gut tells me nothing is as it seems.

          • I hear you. Believe me, I do. You make a lot of sense, even though this situation doesn’t. Yes, they have to be very careful how they go about removing him from office. It has to be something all the people want. It’s just possible that the DemoncRATS are looking to the future. These scandals do NOT make them look good. This is THEIR GUY who is spying on the people, using the government against ordinary citizens, spying on Congress (potentially). If they don’t see/realize the danger of THAT fact, they need to wake up soon and smell the coffee (from their closets, where they’re hiding themselves or their skeletons). What DHS is doing with the tanks, ammo, checkpoints, etc.: that’s very concerning because it fits your scenario. We KNOW that the UN wants the U.S. disarmed. They CANNOT defeat an armed people. They know that as well as our Founders did. They ought to know from experience, though, in the Middle East, for example, that an “orange revolution” in the US isn’t going to work any better than it did over there. Things quickly go sideways and not the way they expect. They’re playing with fire.

          • Miri said: It’s just possible that the DemoncRATS are looking to the future. These scandals do NOT make them look good. This is THEIR GUY who is spying on the people, using the government against ordinary citizens, spying on Congress (potentially).

            I think you’re right. They are looking to future, but the reason I think they are is because they aren’t part of the inner circle. The puppeteers don’t care about their future. They’re irrelevant to the future.

            I see Congress divided into three subsets. Both parties combined into the whole. Group A is at the top. They’re either ideological or compromised. They’re doing what they think they have to do, but don’t fully grasp the ramifications of their complicity. They’re playing with fire and have no idea what is going to happen when that fire rages out of control. They are focused on little other than their concern about getting reelected and holding onto their leadership position.

            Group B is the majority. They can also be ideological or compromised, as well as leaning toward Group C. They may shift positions along the scale of their group according to their own special interests. Overall, however, they’re just playing politics, thinking about reelection, keeping majorities or increasing their party to the majority. Mostly, they say whatever they think will play well with their base, then go back to playing the game.

            Group C is the smallest. They get it to one degree or another. They tend more toward ideological than compromised, but it’s possible there’s dirt on them, but most haven’t been corrupted yet or have managed to stay clear of the usual pitfalls. However, they’re thwarted by Groups A and B most of the time. They strike when the iron is hot, which inevitably runs afoul of Groups A and B, then retreat to try to work within the system to live to fight another day.

            I once heard said that Congress is like mushrooms. Kept in the dark and fed…crap. For the most part, I think that’s true, mainly about the big picture. They know how the system works. They know the back room deals and the proclivities they have adopted since they began to believe they’re special. But overall, they don’t see or believe the outcome of their blind complicity, underhanded deals and poor administration of their duties will effect them in the least. They believe they can continue to play the game and all will continue as it always has. I believe they are dead wrong and that may end up being literal, because new regimes always eliminate anyone who may be disenchanted with what they actually helped install. Whether they know it or not, their very lives may depend on We, the People and our love for the Rule of Law.

            Things quickly go sideways and not the way they expect. They’re playing with fire.

            Yes, though I think the puppeteers have war gamed all the scenarios they can conceive. They are indeed playing with fire. However, they are incapable of understanding the ordinary American. They don’t live in that world, nor can they find advisors who truly do. You have to be ideologically corrupt, to start with, to work with them or for them. And someone who doesn’t share their ideological view, but would sell their soul for blood money is tainted by their own views and self interest. They are by necessity disconnected.

            We thwart them by not reacting as they expect. So far, we’re winning that battle. They’ve lost any appearance of moral high ground they may have had. They must fire the first shot, bring in the foreign troops, then scratch their heads about why Americans united and refused to give up the Constitution and sovereignty. They can be bought and sold, even if they think they’re the buyer. They don’t have the ability to understand the American psyche. Thank God.

            Don’t get me wrong. It won’t be easy. It’s going to far beyond anything any of us can conceive, but I have never doubted for one second that we were all conceived with the DNA of man’s unalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Even most of the obots will remember who they are when they’re faced with losing what they love, and it’s not an ideology of social justice. We will come out free on the other side, no matter what may happen. We are the fire. It’s in our DNA.

            • Gosh darn you’re smart. Seriously. You see far more than I do. I bet you’re a good chess player. I never can see far enough ahead, but I can somehow sense disaster in the offing. I do believe you’re correct that they do NOT understand the EXTRAordinary American psyche. They’re not like us. That’s for sure. How many of us would REALLY want to be in Congress? We don’t have the ego. I do hope we come out on the other side still FREE. WE MUST. I found a few articles:

     That one talks about how Barry depends upon us panicking and giving up, which of course WE won’t do. Something in us keeps us going. As Rosemary Woodhouse would say, “SCREW THEM.”

     That one is interesting because it talks about exactly who that journalist at the Guardian is. The one who Lord Snowden with the pole dancer girlfriend ratted to. He’s beyond a progressive lib. Funny that Snowden would pick him and funny he’d run off to Hong Kong and not just be a “Deep Throat”. I still would like to know who’s bankrolling him. And why this high-school dropout somehow, in just a few short years, ends up making more than Jim Clapper himself. Then he throws it all away. To tell us about a program that Mr. Bamberg revealed last year. As somebody at Conservative Treehouse said, “pretty shiny things.” In the meantime, Scandalanche proceeds unnoticed by the media. And it’s all Bush’s fault.

          • That’s weird. My post doesn’t seem to have posted. If it did, and there are two of the same, please delete one. [I deleted most of it; WordPress is acting jerky today. If I delete the whole thing, it screws things up, so I’ll leave this much here. Miri]

          • Rosemary Woodhouse

            7Delta, absolutely bang on!

          • Miri said: That one talks about how Barry depends upon us panicking and giving up, which of course WE won’t do. Something in us keeps us going. As Rosemary Woodhouse would say, “SCREW THEM.”

            Yep. That’s part of the strategy. Every time I hear a poll that defies logic, I chuckle and say,”Resistance is futile.” So yes, much of the information we’re given is meant to demoralize people so they give up and to create fear. If they really were the majority, they wouldn’t have to spend so much time telling us they’re the majority, creating bogus polls and spying mechanisms.

            ‘They’ are, at best, 20% of the population. At least, that’s the consistent decades-old percentage that identify as liberal. Only 1-3% self identify as progressive (both parties, I would think) and some of them have no idea that progressivism is not a forward motion for humankind. Not all self-identified liberals would be onboard, if they knew half of what’s going on. They’re getting a sneak peek now. Often people who are receiving any kind of entitlement or benefit are counted as ‘on the other side’, but not all of those people are happy. Many are pretty darn ticked off over the handling of the economy and shipping jobs overseas, not to mention the open border policy of letting illegals roam at will. They’re victims of bad policy stemming from the global ideology…the put-everyone-else-before-Americans ideology. They know it.

            Thanks for the links. I’ll read them. And thank you for the compliment, but I’m not smarter than anybody else. I’m just a logical person who, according to some of my friends, analyzes everything to death. LOL. It’s what I do. I’m certainly not always right and I certainly don’t have all the necessary information to make pin-point accurate predictions. Plus, plans change and people don’t always follow the script they usually don’t know they’re following. I look for the big picture, then try to distill it down to possible scenarios. It’s just my version of war gaming that I constantly check against what I’ve read and what I see.

            At any rate, the core to simple projection about where someone or something is going is to know human nature. Past behavior is a reliable predictor of future behavior. No matter how much we may advance technologically, human nature never changes. We won’t evolve out of it. History and experience teaches us what man is capable of–from the best to the worst. We may correct mistakes along the way, but the basic capabilities, good and bad, are never extinguished and certain conditions exacerbate tendencies to determine which characteristics take control. People can rise to highest of heights or sink to the lowest common denominator of man’s most base nature. We have to choose, one person at a time, which nature we feed. That’s my baseline for analyzing what people might do.

            So…observe people. Everybody make mistakes. How they respond to those mistakes tell us a lot about them. People lie. Watch what they do, not what they say. Evaluate guiding principles and morals. Everything cast as moral or principled is not. People can truly believe they are principled, when they’re not. There is a certain arrogance to their beliefs, that they are smarter and more evolved than people who may disagree with them. They have to prove something that has no historical basis or logical alignment with human nature. Look at the whole history of mankind from a human nature perspective. We find that if historical events do not repeat exactly, man’s nature is predictable when given the free rein to take an unchecked path. We can see that certain ‘evolved’ principles are flawed because man is flawed. They didn’t work in the past and they won’t work now. History demonstrates the flaws over and over. Since man’s nature has not changed since creation, neither has his propensity to self-delusion. It’s hard to always know who is telling the truth and who is lying. Good people believe wrong things. Bad people get it right every now and then. Nothing is cut and dry. But there is a right and wrong and they never change. We have to determine as individuals where our morals and principles are seated. How grounded in historical evidence are they? We can disagree and not be bad people, just as we can agree and not be good people. However, it’s good to remember that no one is wholly good or bad, but certain characteristics can rule a person to overshadow other facets of their personality and make that person lean more one way then another. Just because something was acceptable in the past doesn’t make it moral or principled now, but neither does it make it necessarily wrong. Right and wrong doesn’t evolve. Both remain static. We are the ones that have to grope around in the dark sometimes to find solid ground. That’s why our morals and principles must be grounded in truth and evidenced by its historical fruits. Just because everyone did not uphold the truth in the right way doesn’t negate the truth. Such wrongs merely remind us that man can even screw up right.

            This is why I believe we all must know what we believe and why. It’s not enough to just accept what we’re told is right or wrong, but we must truly understand our position on issues–at least, to the best of ability at any given time. We may feel emotional about certain issues, but emotions are not necessarily grounded in truth. Righteous anger is one thing. It’s a deeply held understanding of right and wrong. It’s logical and proceeds logically, even if such logic leads to violent self-defense. Think the founders. Allowing emotional anger to lead us rarely leads to anything good. Too often, it’s unevaluated anger. Think riots. They hurt themselves and innocent people more than they make an actual impact on whatever the perceived problem. They’ve lost the moral high ground. That said, I agree with Rosemary’s “Screw you!” to the NSA, the IRS and the administration. They’re wrong. Over the line. Her point is well taken. It’s not an ungrounded emotional response. It proceeds from a highly defined understanding of right and wrong. Righteous anger. A reaction to a moral line that has been breached.

            When we discern from a solid position, we know whether something is worth fighting for, what the risks are and how much we’re willing to sacrifice to resist wrong, including death or imprisonment. When we stand on truth and justice, while recognizing the role human nature plays–our own included–then use it as our benchmark for evaluating what we’re told or what we see, we can project to a reasonable degree where certain ideologies and people are trying to steer us. If these people are not operating from a logical, moral and principled place, it become obvious. Then we weigh what they say and do against what history has taught us. Human nature never changes and there are only so many ways to skin a cat. Wash, rinse and repeat. Who benefits? How do they get to their desired goal? Is what we see simple reality or manipulation? Or both?

            Anyway, I don’t mean to be preachy. This is just how I try to project what people are doing, why, and the most logical outcome I can see. My baseline. I’m sure there are plenty of additional ways that are just as valid to derive possible scenarios. Know yourself and you know them.

            • Ok. I’ll change what I said. You’re WISE. That’s what you are.

              Thank you so much for the insights. You’re correct about human nature. Our nature is EXACTLY why the simlarly WISE Founders wrote the Constitution–to stand as a bulwark against human nature. But progressives do believe that human nature can be “progressed” and “perfected” and with it, the entire world. Then we will all hold hands and sing Kumbaya and all will be well. They live in fantasyland.

          • Miri said: Our nature is EXACTLY why the simlarly WISE Founders wrote the Constitution–to stand as a bulwark against human nature. But progressives do believe that human nature can be “progressed” and “perfected” and with it, the entire world.

            You hit the nail on the head. I’ve always thought the Constitution is as much about human nature as it is about the Rule of Law.

            You’re also right that many progressives operate from a believe that human nature can be perfected. They’ve perfected it and feel justified in forcing their ‘perfection’ onto everyone else. Not a perfect perfection, I’d say, if it must be forced. It’s just regressing back to a time when oppression of dissent gave the oppressors the illusion of harmony and evolutionary superiority. The Neanderthals who wouldn’t accept submission to perfection deserved what they got. Pass the rainbows and moonbeams, please.

            Sadly, the only thing that has been perfected is the presentation of subversion and deceit. It is, indeed, fantasyland to believe this generation is more evolved than Mao or Stalin or Hitler or Pol Pot or any other brutal dictator in history. Those are just from the last century. Heck, regime brutality against its own people is still going on today. You’d think that they would realize that if man could be perfected by the recycled ideology they espouse today, it would have worked sometime in last 100 attempts it was tried, then spread by willing adoption, not force. Instead, it’s been responsible for the death of hundred of millions of innocent people. The perfect killing machine. At least they got a ‘perfect’ something.

            I wouldn’t say I’m wise either, since I know so little, but thank you. That’s a very kind thing to say.

    Code name ‘Verax’…
    VIDEO: 29-year-old source behind biggest intel leak in NSA history explains motives…
    ‘I don’t want to live in society that does these sort of things’…
    ‘I believed in Obama’s promises’…
    ‘Presidents openly lie to secure the office’…
    ‘Government has granted itself power it is not entitled to’…
    Suggests he’s defecting — to China?
    Former CIA Officer: ‘Potential Chinese Espionage’…
    REPORT: NSA began hunt before leak…
    Employer BOOZ ALLEN HAMILTON Strikes it Rich Maintaining Government Secrets…
    REPORT: Intel officials overheard saying NSA leaker should be ‘disappeared’…
    Snowden Checked Out Of Hong Kong Hotel…
    Seeks refuge in Iceland?
    ….. on drudge……..

  11. Believe this?

    Marco Rubio: In immigration reform, legalization comes first — ‘It is not conditional’

    In a Spanish-language interview Sunday with the network Univision, Sen. Marco Rubio, the leading Republican on the Gang of Eight comprehensive immigration reform group, made his strongest statement yet that legalization of the nation’s estimated 11 million illegal immigrants must happen before any new border security or internal enforcement measures are in place, and will in no way be conditional on any security requirements.

    “Let’s be clear,” Rubio said. “Nobody is talking about preventing the legalization. The legalization is going to happen. That means the following will happen: First comes the legalization. Then come the measures to secure the border. And then comes the process of permanent residence.”

    In most of his public appeals [in ENGLISH] for the Gang of Eight bill, Rubio has stressed its enforcement provisions, saying that border security must come before immigrants are granted legal permanent resident status. What he has not stressed so much is the fact that the bill would legalize the 11 million almost immediately, after they have passed background checks and paid some sort of fine. That would happen before any new security measures are completed, or even begun. …”

    Of course, “legalization” is NOT citizenship, but it’s the first step. And despite how they PRETEND otherwise, it’s a given that these 11 million (PLUS) will get amnesty immediatamente.

    just because “O” LIED 2 “THEM” … all 3 of … “THEM”
    (less cool~aid left in the trough folks) WAKIN’ UP.. so very LATE!
    I say … it’s the DANG same ears you HAD in 2008’… BUTT’ “NOW”
    “KAREL” (“his” gay issues equal=equal …O’ LIED LIED LIED 2 ME!)
    ~ Drones use ~ NSA & more non ~TRUTHS = MORE LIES!

    “Maureen Langan” (as in hangin’ with langan) who & what I say
    is no ones business. It has finally hit HOME SWEET HOME!
    “Allen Colmes”…. eating CROW…. big time… It’s a 1ST for
    I listen to all 3… it gives me a chance to scream loud
    in my car & since K & ML do stand-up gigs… & are
    Radio Jocks.. all 3 are VERY full of themselves…. as they
    awaken so must others/listeners as they STICK TOGETHER!
    A shortened tighter LEASH … SO NOW O has “COME 4 THEM” O!


    Disclosures on NSA spying alarm lawmakers, tech companies

    … Data-mining programs map such connections and provide grounds for further inquiry, potentially including the contents of calls, according to former operatives and Justice Department officials.

    Among the remaining unknowns, even after four days of media coverage, is how much data beyond phone numbers is collected from U.S. residents, how that data is “minimized” to prevent excess scrutiny, how it is analyzed and how long it is kept.

    The NSA “keeps the emails essentially forever. I don’t think there is any question about it,” said Mark Rossini, a former FBI supervisor who was assigned to a CIA counter-terrorism unit and who said he was briefed on PRISM.

    They are not reading our data, [yet] they are storing it in bits and bytes that can be searched,” Rossini said. The same is likely true of the mass of phone calls copied from AT&T Inc offices to facilities controlled by the NSA, as disclosed by an AT&T whistleblower in 2006, he added. …

    The NSA slides stated that more than 1,400 items in Obama’s intelligence briefings last year came from PRISM.

    It remains unclear exactly how the Internet companies provide information to the government, in part because virtually everything about PRISM is considered a national security secret. It was also not clear why some companies, notably Twitter, said they were able to resist and were absent from the PRISM slides. …

    Several of the companies said a human being had to approve each tracking request. Government and industry sources said some of the companies appear to have installed special equipment to facilitate intelligence requests.

    In addition, tracking all the Internet activities of a specific person or group over a period of time, for example, could yield a great deal of data and require special systems to track and retrieve it. Americans will still have some of their data sucked up, stored and digested in multiple ways, former intelligence operatives said. …

    Indeed, PRISM appears to be an effective tool for the NSA precisely because U.S. companies dominate the Internet, and global communications even among people overseas often pass through the United States. That is galling to those in Europe who have argued that local technology companies need to be nurtured to combat U.S. economic and political domination.”

  14. Will US even Survive O’s full term ???? I’m LIVID … R U ?

  15. Rosemary Woodhouse

    p.s. Barack- you are the embodiment of everything that is wrong with political correctness and affirmative action.

    p.s. Barack- you have set race relations back a century. How does that legacy feel? You’re a bastard, quite literally!

  16. Go to OBRYR. This is what Falcon posted for us about the audios of Chief Kessler about BO. He went to the closed-door meeting the sheriffs had in MO. We asked what the audios were about because of various reasons. Below is what Falcon said:

    “Some of this is from an earlier post.

    Chief Mark Kessler sat in on the closed door session and said Barry is a totally fraud, America was duped. Kessler has heard all of the evidence most of the evidence and is going apocalyptic in his radio podcast. He did not know Zullo before the event. He’s going to Washington D.C. with Zullo. He will be carrying a gun even though politicians in D.C do not want him and other law enforcement to carry guns. Kessler had a flight and missed the last hour or hour and a half but from what he heard – it was enough to know that Obama was a fraud. He said Obama is not Kenyan and not American and when the truth comes out your blood will boil.

    He said this investigation is gonna bring Washington to a screeching halt. Says he doubts Congress will act, but you will see the next American revolution. Says he will do what’s right for America, you’re with us or against us. Choose sides.

    Then there were callers – and they were pretty good – they didn’t believe anything Obama has said or offered as proof – further, knows that Zullo will release what has been established. “

    • this cop is not kidding. he’s enraged. bold.

      They know he’s a usurper which is probably extremely dangerous knowledge. ya think? Do they know who Valerie Jarrett is, too? That would be too much to ask.
      ~ the keeper of the secrets, the Chicago boss, from where all roads lead (and crisscross)

    • Rosemary Woodhouse

      “You’re either with us or against us. Choose sides”


      p.s. Barack. You’ve chosen which side you’re on and clearly it isn’t America’s, ya bastid!

    • When will he release the TRUTH?

  17. Also someone said from ORYR, Stanley Ann and Obama, Sr. are not his real parents. And he didn’t live in the US for the first 5 years of his life. So he’s not Kenyan nor American. Humm….

    • yes, I heard that, too. profound.

    • Always wondered if the Philippines might want to check O’s citizenship status. Around 1959-61 was a new regime and lots of turmoil. The Americans were asked to get out too. Our military had a 100 year lease on lands which was renegotiated around that time too for a much shorter time. We closed some bases. I have a friend who told me long time ago her husband and she had to leave in a hurry. Just Wondering about O. and Stanley ann’s time in the Phillipines. The CHINESE were not doing so well there either at the time. There is a Moro faction also in the Philippines…that is MUSLIM faction….who they still to this day have problems with and have had since the 1500’s …the Moro Pirates took refuge their and Also there was a large Catholic Jesuit population…..even a Jesuit GIRLS school.

      • Good thoughts, too, alfy. Filipino. Yep. Could be. Ann was in the Philippines, if it was she and if the INS records were correct. Maybe she was there picking up an adopted kid.

    • Rosemary Woodhouse

      Quasi kidding…..a Boy From Brazil? Certainly acts as if.

  18. German Government Brands Goods Made in Factories That Are Owned by Jews

    In a throwback to its darkest past, the German government recently decided to back an initiative which singles out Jewish-owned businesses and targets them for detrimental treatment. Joining 13 other European Union members, Berlin has reportedly agreed to support efforts aimed at applying special labels of origin to products manufactured by Jewish owned factories in Judea and Samaria.

  19. Rosemary Woodhouse

    Talk about synchronicity. I posted my comment ^^ before I read yours, Pap. Chilling.

  20. I’m going to re-post some older comments here, along with a new update…

  21. @TheBushCenter Serious question: Can you release George W. Bush’s Form I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification


    @WJCLibrary Serious question: Can you release William J. Clinton’s Form I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification

    @BushLibrary Serious question: Can you release George H.W. Bush’s Form I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification

  22. I received this response via Twitter:

    Clinton Library Verified account ‏@WJCLibrary
    @ittrp Send us an email at and elaborate on your request, we’ll be happy to try to help!

    I have sent an email and will let you know what they do in response. My email said:

    Thank you for the reply to my twitter message below.

    To elaborate on my request, the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 requires:

    All employees, citizens and noncitizens, hired after November 6, 1986 and working in the United States must complete a Form I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification.”

    I’m interested in seeing the Form I-9 and accompanying documentation (from the list of Accepted Documents) that was submitted with that Form I-9 when William Jefferson Clinton began his employment as President of the United States on January 20, 1993.

    Thank you in advance for your assistance.

  23. Good afternoon,

    Thank you for contacting the Clinton Presidential Library. We have conducted a search of our records and unfortunately have found nothing responsive to your request. You may wish to contact the Clinton Foundation to see if they have any materials relevant to your search. You can submit a contact request at their website.

    Additionally, a federal employee personnel records are housed in St. Louis at the National Personnel Record Center. They may or may not be able to assist you in your request, but it’s at least another avenue to explore.

    I apologize that we could not be of more assistance. If you have any additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact us again.


    Brittany Gerke
    Archives Technician
    Clinton Presidential Library
    1200 President Clinton Ave
    Little Rock, AR 72201


    Not likely to happen without Bill Clinton’s approval, so…

    @BillClinton Serious question: Will you release your Form I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification from Jan 1993?

  25. Rosemary Woodhouse


  26. Ozero has sure changed his tune…. 🙄

  27. I’m beginning to think that all of these scandals are being allowed to come out now. I think they’re doing this to take people’s minds off of the first one, Benghazi, which must be the most serious. I mean, the others are bad, but maybe Benghazi is the worst of them all. We just don’t know it yet.

  28. Web inventor Berners-Lee warns forces are ‘trying to take control’

    James Hurley

    The inventor of the World Wide Web said the internet is facing a “major” threat from “people who want to control it on the sly” through “worrying laws” such as SOPA, the US anti-piracy act, and through the actions of internet giants.

    “If you can control [the internet], if you can start tweaking what people say, or intercepting communications, it’s very, very powerful…it’s the sort of power that if you give it to a corrupt government, you give them the ability to stay in power forever.”

    Sir Tim was speaking as it emerged that the US government has been collecting huge amounts of personal information from Google, Facebook, Apple and other internet companies.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s