Sandy Hook. A Ruse? (Open Thread)

© Miri WTPOTUS January 8, 2013

Sandy_Hook_Memorial - Copy

We’re not the only citizens who have questioned the stories coming out of Connecticut, regarding the Sandy Hook massacre.  Now there’s a Florida professor who has a lot of questions, too. 

Florida Atlantic University (FAU) communications professor James Tracy teaches a class called “Culture of Conspiracy”.  From this story, which quotes Tracy’s blog: [emphasis added to quotes]

“As documents relating to the Sandy Hook shooting continue to be assessed and interpreted by independent researchers, there is a growing awareness that the media coverage of the massacre of 26 children and adults was intended primarily for public consumption to further larger political ends,” writes Tracy, a tenured associate professor of media history at FAU and a former union leader.

In another post, he says, “While it sounds like an outrageous claim, one is left to inquire whether the Sandy Hook shooting ever took place — at least in the way law enforcement authorities and the nation’s news media have described.”

In an article at another site, Tracy lays out many problems that he sees with this troubling incident.  In particular, he questions the behavior of well-known CT Medical Examiner (ME) H. Wayne Carver II:

An especially important yet greatly underreported feature of the Sandy Hook affair is the wholly bizarre performance of Connecticut’s top medical examiner H. Wayne Carver II at a December 15 press conference. Carver’s unusual remarks and behavior warrant close consideration because in light of his professional notoriety they appear remarkably amateurish and out of character.

H. Wayne Carver II has an extremely self-assured, almost swaggering presence in Connecticut state administration.  … In early 2012 Carver threatened to vacate his position because of state budget cuts and streamlining measures that threatened his professional autonomy over the projects and personnel he oversaw.

Along these lines the pathologist has gone to excessive lengths to demonstrate his findings and expert opinion in court proceedings. … One would therefore expect Carver to be in his element while identifying and verifying the exact ways in which Sandy Hook’s children and teachers met their violent demise.

Yet the H. Wayne Carver who showed up to the December 15 press conference is an almost entirely different man, appearing apprehensive and uncertain, as if he is at a significant remove from the postmortem operation he had overseen. The multiple gaffes, discrepancies, and hedges in response to reporters’ astute questions suggest that he is either under coercion or an imposter. While the latter sounds untenable it would go a long way in explaining his sub-pedestrian grasp of medical procedures and terminology.

The article includes video of the press conference with Carver and analysis of certain excerpts.  An example, to illustrate the type of “discrepancies”:

Reporter #2: Doctor can you tell us about the nature of the wounds. Were they at very close range? Were the children shot at from across the room?

Carver: Uhm, I only did seven of the autopsies. The victims I had ranged from three to eleven wounds apiece and I only saw two of them with close range shooting. Uh, but that’s, uh y’know, a sample. Uh, I really don’t have detailed information on the rest of the injuries.

[Given that Carver is Connecticut’s top coroner and in charge of the entire postmortem this is a startling admission.-JT]

In several spots, Carver seems to telegraph that he’s been muzzled by forces unknown.

I shouldn’t be saying this  …

he complains at one point.  His comments about the bullet fragments seem to contradict an assertion by State Police Lieutenant Vance that a Bushmaster 223 was used in the shooting.

Read all the excerpts, and it quickly becomes obvious that Carver is far from professional in detailing what ought to be cut-and-dried medical information, especially for a man who has testified to the same type of information many times at criminal trials.  Anybody who’s watched similar news conferences over the years (or the OJ trial) understands immediately that this man seems rather unfamiliar with his material.  Professor Tracy has many questions, among them:

When did Lanza arrive?

If Lanza blasted his way into the school by shooting through the glass doors, then why was no alarm sounded throughout the facility, to alert everyone to the intrusion?  This was a new security system, after all.  Why did nobody claim to hear those intial gunshots, but heard gunshots only after he was inside the building, shooting people?

How did Lanza get off so many rounds in such a short time?  Tracy provides a mathematical analysis that certainly calls into question the concept of one deranged person being able to accomplish such a feat.

Why is there NO photographic or video evidence?  Why has nobody seen the bodies, other than the police and ME Carver and his staff?  Not even the families.  They identified their deceased from photographs.

Why were “first responders” from other communities, who arrived quickly, denied access to the wounded?  Who made the call that everyone was beyond medical care?  These medical personnel were forced to set up camp at a fire station in the area, and they weren’t allowed to help.

Where is photographic evidence that evacuation of 600 students even took place?  There’s also controversy over whether or not the well-known photo of children being led out with their eyes closed and hands on each other’s shoulders was taken that day or on another date.  Certainly, one might question why the rest of the area around that file of children is not teeming with people.

Tracy ends with this compelling argument:

If recent history is a prelude the likelihood of citizens collectively assessing and questioning Sandy Hook is limited even given the event’s overtly superficial trappings. While the incident is ostensibly being handled by Connecticut law enforcement, early reports indicate how federal authorities were on the scene as the 911 call was received. Regardless of where one stands on the Second Amendment and gun control, it is not unreasonable to suggest the Obama administration complicity or direct oversight of an incident that has in very short order sparked a national debate on the very topic—and not coincidentally remains a key piece of Obama’s political platform.

The move to railroad this program through with the aid of major media and an irrefutable barrage of children’s portraits, “heartfelt” platitudes and ostensible tears neutralizes a quest for genuine evidence, reasoned observation and in the case of Newtown honest and responsible law enforcement. Moreover, to suggest that Obama is not capable of deploying such techniques to achieve political ends is to similarly place ones faith in image and interpretation above substance and established fact, the exact inclination that in sum has brought America to such an impasse.

On his personal blog, memoryholeblog.com, Tracy provides a timeline of events. (This story is now on Drudge. It remains to be seen whether this tenured professor will be forced out of his job by the tolerant, First-Amendment-loving left.)

It’s of note that, today, a victim of another questionable shooting incident is being used in a cynical attempt to further inflame the issue of gun control.

Gabrielle Giffords and her husband have launched a website to lobby for gun control.   It’s basically the “anti-NRA” lobby.  How long before we learn that George Soros, or any of his many organizations, is pouring millions, if not billions, into this transparent attempt by global forces to disarm the American people?

Ironically, Giffords, herself a potential victim of what Tracy suggests may have happened at Sandy Hook, is being used to further the ends of those who may be responsible for her predicament.

Note that if you disagree with Giffords and her husband, and the wealthy global interests behind this crusade, then you’re not for “responsible” gun ownership.  Responsible. That’s an interesting word, especially when you consider that millions of responsible gun owners in this country are the ones being held responsible for the multiple murders taking place throughout this country, perpetrated by IRRESPONSIBLE gun owning criminals and/or psychopaths.

When a drunk driver kills someone, we don’t take away everyone’s car.

Why are the consequences falling upon those who are law abiding citizens?  Why are their rights being infringed upon, instead of the rights of those who illegally and irresponsibly use guns?  Giffords’s op-ed states:

The children of Sandy Hook Elementary School and all victims of gun violence deserve fellow citizens and leaders who have the will to prevent gun violence in the future.

How can our government prevent gun violence in the future?

Instead of disarming responsible gun owners, punishing the owners and thousands of employees of gun-focused businesses, or infringing upon the constitutional rights of all citizens, perhaps the government should begin by enforcing current laws, by quaranteeing the insane, by posting armed guards at schools, by locking classroom doors, and by not running guns to Mexico.

#####

01/09/13 — I noticed a something disturbing.  Before It’s News picks up some of our posts and republishes them.  Their version of this story has a different photograph and someone has added a sentence at the very end that I did not write, even though the personal pronoun “I” is used in the last sentence of their copy, making it appear as if I called this incident “one of the biggest hoaxes I have ever seen.”  I did not write that.  I would not write that. I simply don’t know what’s going on.  I (and many, many others) have the same unanswered questions, and they do deserve answers.

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649 responses to “Sandy Hook. A Ruse? (Open Thread)

  1. Hey, everyone,
    I was over at the Memory Hole blog reading the comments about Sandy Hook again. Someone posted this link, which you could have it on here: http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2013/01/26/how-we-know-a-guide-on-counseling-children-about-sandy-hook-predated-the-massacre/

    Then there’s a link there: http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2013/01/16/guide-for-how-to-talk-to-children-about-sandy-hook-pre-dated-the-massacre/

    Have you guys seen this yet? I think the link that I got from Memory Hole is recent. I’ll go back and look for it.

    • It’s interesting to see that our friends at FOTM use the concept of “synchronicity” in their articles, too. One of my favorite spooky things. I’m reading all their posts now. It will take a while. I haven’t read any of their posts lately.

      • Check out the realistic crisis actor in this video: A zoo in Japan holding an earthquake drill and simulating a zebra on the loose. Here’s the zebra, and I swear I’m not making this up:

        DON’T TAZE ME, BRO!!!! http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/zookeeper-dresses-as-zebra-for-escape-drill-1569292

      • I’m reading this post: http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2013/02/02/no-ssdi-for-one-sandy-hook-massacre-victim/

        I wonder if the reason why the media used Lily Gaubert’s photo for Allison Wyatt is that an “image search” turned up Facebook photos that were falsely “tagged” as Allison when it was really Lily. Facebook uses facial recognition software to “tag” people identified elsewhere on Facebook (maybe even on the Web) by TRYING to match faces that appear in other photos on Facebook. Then, if there’s a “match”, Facebook LABELS the individual as if it’s the person, when it may not be the person, just a doppelganger. I do think those little girls resemble each other, so the “metrics” might have been close enough to make a “match”.

        This is just one of the dangers of “social media”. The errors hang out there forever. I remember talking before about how Facebook builds dossiers on people EVEN IF they don’t have Facebook pages themselves. This is one reason why they do it. To “tag” photos.

        Imagine that a grandchild posts a family photo and labels one of the people, “Grandma Smith”. Granny doesn’t have a Facebook page, so Facebook creates a dossier on her. By combing through the entries on the grandchild’s page, scrutinizing the pages of everybody labeled “family”, maybe eventually they figure out Granny’s full name. Then, if anybody else posts a photo anywhere of a woman who LOOKS ENOUGH LIKE GRANNY TO MAKE A MATCH, they just go ahead and “tag” her as Granny Smith.

        That must have been very upsetting for that woman to see her child in the news listed as among the dead. How to explain THAT to the child? The media owe that family an apology and somebody needs to investigate how it happened. If it was because of “tagging” software, then the companies ought to be held to account. Media ought to explain their “mistake”, too.

        It’s spooky enough that people have NO CONTROL over their own photo showing up on the Internet, without social media companies labeling the faces that they think they find in photos on the Web.

        • http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2013/01/28/author-jack-cashill-speaks-up-for-sandy-hook-skeptics/

          I didn’t know Jack Cashill weighed in to defend those who question the official Sandy Hook tale. TY, Jack.

        • I keep getting drawn back to this topic. I was just reading some of the “Sexton Green” theories, and looking at the photos of the Greens (Christina-Taylor, her grandfather Dallas, etc) and the resemblances are striking in some cases,but I still wouldn’t call it “proof”.
          I did try looking up Christina in the SSDI databases that are available to search online

          for free, including familysearch.org (that one was acting weird and I couldn’t get it to do a search at all…unrelated to who I was searching), genealogybank and ssdmf.info (which says it’s current to Nov, 2011 and she died in Jan, 2011 so should be included) and the point is I can’t find her in any database that I can access.
          Has anyone else looked?

          • Actually, I did just find this on ancestry when I used her birthdate but can’t access the records. “Christinataylo Green date dd mm 2011 Arizona”
            It should have showed up on the other searches though.

            • I just read this comment above, after I responded to your last one. Isn’t it an odd coincidence that they made that “mistake” on her name?

          • And now I find it on genealogybank. I am sure I searched before using the birthdate and last name…but that’s how I found it. Never mind.

          • I’m ashamed to say that her name didn’t ring a bell. I had to look her up. She’s the little girl who was killed when Giffords was shot. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JGB2-Y6J They have her name as Christinataylo Green. She was BORN on Sept. 11, 2001. Who do you believe she resembles? What are the odds she was born that horrid day?

          • I’ll see if i can find the blog that makes the connections, I’m sure they’ve been discussed, but the “actor/actress” who “played” the Phelps couple also have a child who (it is claimed) looks just like Christina Green.

            Hadn’t heard this guy before (Joel Skousen) but he sure sounds credible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNGqYkC4dWA

            I can’t find a transcript, unfortunately you have to listen for almost 50 minutes, but the bottom line is he believes Adam Lanza was programmed and that perhaps the other men there were to “make sure” his suicide was successful.

          • One thing I hadn’t heard before that Joel Skousen mentions (in the video I mentioned below) is the possible parallel to the Dunblane, Scotland school shootings which I have to admit I don’t remember although the name sounds vaguely familiar.
            Here’s the wiki description.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre

            Now, what he mentions (and he says it as if it is fact) is that the shooter in that case was killed with a different caliber weapon than ANY of the guns he was found with (so, NOT a suicide_. They sealed those records to prevent “distress” to the victims families apparently AND that incident led to the gun bans in Great Britain.

            • He says the new security system had cameras on every hallway and that they should have video of him tracing every step Lanza made. I don’t know HOW he knows this; it would help if he mentioned his sources. I also wonder about his statement that the Bushmaster rounds would be more powerful than the pistols. I don’t know much about guns, but people I know who do seem to say that the Bushmaster is little more than a .22 rifle that looks like a military gun.

              If it weren’t for the fact that our government did, at one time at least, suggest doing the very thing Skousen speculates about, I’d say it was a “conspiracy theory.” I’ve always thought that Holmes was supposed to kill himself.

              He builds credibility by squashing the rumor that the fathers of the shooters were involved with the Libor scandal. He says these may be instances of people putting out false “conspiracy theories” in order to dilute the effect of real “conspiracy theories.”

            • Have you seen this one? http://aangirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/mysterious-adam-ryan-lanza.html

              Skousen says that the “dark side of government” gets “delight” in giving little clues about where they’re going to see if anybody “picks up on it.” This is something we’ve noticed. The symbolism they delight in. The snarky foreshadowing. I’m not sure if it’s the dark side of government or just the dark side. This is one of the links from that first blog: http://madravolt.blogspot.com/2013/01/did-adam-lanza-exist-in-last-three-years.html There are pictures on both of them that I’ve never seen, but some are obviously photoshopped in the same way that some of Barry’s have been–arms too long to be possible, etc. I didn’t know that Ryan Lanza (if he exists or is it Adam who never existed?) said that he gave no interview to Facebook, upon which a NY news story was based and then retracted. I’m trying to figure out what it was that was retracted, exactly. What was said in the hoax that was reported as fact. Looking at the photo of those little girls, is it possible that they morphed the faces together to create a being who never existed? I would prefer to believe that the killings were an entire hoax rather than to believe that somebody, perhaps in our government or perhaps in another government, actually had murdered 20 little children for their own evil political ends. RW, you’re convincing me and so are events.

  2. This is from the Memory Hole blog, and it’s a cross-post. Check out what he’s saying:

    ” Rational Observer
    February 2, 2013 at 1:26 pm

    What does anyone think of this – a discussion about the meaning of so many tribute sites and grief-counselling sites seeming to have been established before the SH shooting had happened. This guy is a web developer who seems to know what he’s talking about, and he makes a persuasive case.

    http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2013/01/26/how-we-know-a-guide-on-counseling-children-about-sandy-hook-predated-the-massacre/

    He suggests the shooting was originally timed for Dec 10, but had to be scrubbed, but not before some of these website had been launched and logged at Google.

    It seems to me that such solid questions as this, and the curious anomalies surrounding the children Rosen allegedly sheltered (if all of Soto’s kids are accounted for elsewhere, then Rosen would be proved to be lying) are the kind of points that could be pursued most successfully.

    Dr. Tracey? Are you considering any further investigations?”

    • Did you read the posts by “Jeremy” who is cited in the article as somehow being involved with the software used by that Arlington school (where the Dec 10 notice was posted). I don’t know enough about computer stuff to be able to discern who is right, but I’m somewhat persuaded by his argument that there’s a logical reason for the dates. I mean, if that was actually posted on Dec

      10, wouldn’t people reading the Arlington school website have had a LOT of questions about it in the interim 4 days before the Sandy Hook thing happened, and wouldn’t they have had even MORE questions when it actually happened?

      • SEO, I did read that and it is plausible that what Jeremy says is correct. I know what the other person is talking about, with regard to databases, and both of them could be right. I thought the same thing: wouldn’t a parent immediately call the school and ask them what they’re talking about? What incident at Sandy Hook?

        If people put in the date for a post, then I can totally see how someone could mistakenly date an article: copy and paste. I do it all the time but I usually catch it if I forget to change the date. For example, I copy and paste the line at the top of all my posts because it’s just quicker and easier than typing it again. I copy from my last post and put it in the new post, when I’m writing it. It’s possible to forget to change the date. I’ve caught myself doing it. If I ever didn’t catch it, well, then–I wouldn’t know! :)

        • Did you know the state of CT (says they) will issue a death certificate to anyone who requests? For $20. Just for everyone’s information…

          • That’s interesting. I would imagine some basic information would be required: Like full name and date of death. Surely Orly knows this. If she doesn’t, then one has to wonder. It’s the same with her saying that the SSA won’t release his SS application. I found a law that says that they ASSUME death after 120 years. So all she has to do is request it and NOT give any SS#. Just give what she does have: Name, birth year (hoping they don’t require month and day), residence, etc. Don’t mention BARRY, either. Bounel, if he died in CT, would have to show up on a death index somewhere. Most states have a searchable index so you know what record you’re requesting, don’t they? She doesn’t KNOW where he died. He might have died in NYC. As I learned from our research into Sandy Hook stuff, they consider parts of CT the “greater NY metro area.” Who knew? So somebody who lived in NYC might die in Jersey. That much I did know because of the proximity. Somebody can get a SS# in CT and later move to NYC, Massachusetts, NJ, CT. I go back to my original advice to her: Brick by brick. Piece by piece. Build from the bottom up, not the top down. She doesn’t even know that the Harry Bounel, born 1890, is the “Harrison Bounel” who’s somehow connected to the Obamas.

            I remember that while looking at the Kenyan archives, it struck me how often I found the name “Harrison”. What a strange name for Kenyans. I can’t explain it, but there it is. I remember remarking here: What if “Harrison Bounel” is a corruption of “Harrison B. Ouma”. Those databases are rife with errors. They’re data aggregators. You can see the errors with your own eyes. One person makes a typo and the “facts” live forever on the Web and in those databases. Skip tracers ought to know these things if someone like me, not a skip tracer, does.

          • They have two forms apparently. This one: http://www.ct.gov/dph/LIB/dph/hisr/VR/vs_39d.pdf

            If you want it from the town records and another if you want State Vital Record.http://www.ct.gov/dph/LIB/dph/hisr/VR/vs_39dst.pdf

            It says deaths after 1997 won’t have the SS# unless you’re a relative, funeral director etc…but states clearly that ANYONE can request.
            I was actually thinking of Sandy Hook, but then Harrison B occurred to me also.

        • but a file creation date would automatically be most likely correct, no matter what date you mistakenly put on your article. THere’s a big difference and Google or other servers would probably have an automatic creation date when the file shows up to go out.

          • That’s apples and oranges, but you may be right about that. We don’t know, however, how Google works and I bet they’re not saying. Have there been any examples presented of anybody actually seeing these articles anywhere BEFORE the 14th?

          • yeah, I don’t really know either, just thinking out loud I guess. There are so many other things wrong with this incedent, I haven’t really bothered to check on this contraversy. My husband’s face fook is filled with people sending things on Sandy Hook….there must still be a great deal of interest. He doesn’t usually pay attention to this stuff, but he’s been bombarded with stuff about it. He’s has shown me some of it….and there’s still swarms of different stories out there.

    • question; Are there any children that actually saw someone get shot? I haven’t heard of any. The adults that were killed….what people saw it? If he shot hundreds of bullets, why not more people witnessing this and extremely traumatized children. Instead, I have only heard children say they heard some noises.

      • I know of nobody who says they saw someone shot, except for that man who took kids into his house (Gene Rosen?). He claimed that the kids told him that they saw a man shoot their teacher with two little guns. I believe someone else said that they saw the principal shot. Some people were allegedly taken to the hospital, so there ought to have been survivors, right? Where are the wounded but not dead? Why aren’t they speaking out? It’s interesting that the number of people who allegedly saw the deceased is also very, very limited. None taken to the hospital to be declared dead. Paramedics kept out of the school, so no medical personnel to treat the victims, making for a very limited cadre of witnesses. Somehow, someone made the judgment that ALL the victims were beyond medical help. Who made that call?

        • I’m still confused on what happened in Victoria Soto’s class. Supposedly she put them in the closet, she told Lanza they were in the auditorium or something, and then some kids tried to run for it and got shot? Surely at this point Lanza was aware that ALL the kids were in the closet, how did so many escape? Is that where he died? Does anyone have a better take on that?

          • Did you watch the Katie Couric interview of the Parkers? I linked it here: http://wtpotus.wordpress.com/2013/01/08/sandy-hook-a-ruse-open-thread/comment-page-4/#comment-104638 What is also very, very disturbing is how the mother’s eyes roll up into her head many times during the interview. Why?

          • http://www.newstimes.com/local/article/Teacher-from-Stratford-shielded-students-4120759.php That story says she put the kids in cabinets, too. This was gleaned from a Facebook page “circulated” by other teachers. What was their source? Who knows?

            http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/heroic_teachers_made_the_ultimate_yUlKFrK5Xq0l0bA3CMl65I

            ” … Two of the teachers — Victoria Leigh Soto, 27, and Anne Marie Murphy, 52 — actually turned themselves into human shields to protect their young students after Lanza invaded their classrooms and cruelly opened fire. … Soto, who started teaching at Sandy Hook five years ago, heard the gunfire and told her terrified students to hide inside a closet.

            Once the bullets started flying, she tried to shield the youngsters from the fusillade by jumping in front of them.

            “She put herself between the kids and the gunman’s bullet’s,” her cousin, James Wiltsie told the Wall Street Journal.

            “That is how she was found. Huddled with her children.”

            The baby-faced first-grade teacher died alongside her students — such as Jesse Lewis, 6. Before the shooting, the class of youngsters had been looking forward to making gingerbread houses.”

            Note that the story says Lanza used a “Sig Sauer rifle”. Now these stories also talk about the principal and the school psychologists, who together ran towards Lanza; but both were killed, so who was the witness to their heroics? This woman? From the same story:

            Natalie Hammond, 40, also was in the meeting and may have tried to use her body to block Lanza from entering the office — likely keeping him from killing others inside. She was shot in the arm and leg and was recovering yesterday after surgery at Danbury Hospital.”

            Natalie Hammond. So there’s one person who allegedly would have seen him kill people and would still be alive to interview about it.

          • Sorry if this is out of order, Miri, I’m responding to your latest posts on this (but could only “reply” up here :)
            Thanks for the nypost link. Two things that jumped out at me from that article (but I’m sure there is much more there) are these:
            ..OK, I just edited myself. One was the “one of here students..10 year old boy pupil” comment, that I decided COULD be a fromer pupil and

            just poor reporting that they didn’t identify him as such.

            But then there’s this:
            When she became aware there was a gunman in the school, she hid her first-graders in closets and cabinets, then told the shooter they were in the gym.

            He turned the gun on Soto, killing her, but none of her students were harmed.
            Say what? What about the teachers aide? What about all those kids labelled on her class photo? HOW can they get this much SO wrong?

            Read more: http://www.newstimes.com/local/article/Teacher-from-Stratford-shielded-students-4120759.php#ixzz2KnfEW7SY

            • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZQ3hPcxdQA Rosen says two boys in his house that day said they were in Soto’s class; obviously, they survived and somehow got out to go to his house to play with stuffed animals. Nothing adds up.

              AND he really and truly is an actor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5pCEDmS5v8

            • NY Post said she was found dead “huddled with her children,” so one assumes they were also dead; and yet Gene Rosen says some of them made it to his house. In one of those videos, he says the bus driver had just dropped off some other kids and picked up these kids and presumably brought them only a block or so (passing the fire station) to let them out on his lawn but to stand there with them and then allow him, an unknown and somewhat odd man, to take them into his house for hours. One of the posters of a video of Rosen points out that he said that he read the list of the victims at 6:00 that afternoon; but the poster says the casualty list wasn’t released until 2 days later. Of course, he might have seen the name on the news; but were they releasing names that early in the day? I think not. This was in regard to the mother who he says showed up at his house at “12” (noon or midnight?) looking for her kid who, he says, was among the dead.

  3. duplicate. see here. Comment about killing of SEAL Kyle.

    • Opp’s, wrong post!

    • The first thing I thought: What did he know and when did he know it? Routh a patsy, fall guy, another Lanza (false flag), or perhaps a Jack Ruby (and/or hired). I don’t believe this. It’s bizarre enough that Doherty died in Benghazi after being left to die (like Serpico–no help given, simply withheld until events took their course). Doherty, remember, was involved in taking out the pirates that Barry did NOT want taken out (unless that was Woods). He was involved in responding to the attack on the Cole. What are the odds, huh?

      • Miri, the shooter lived at one time at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. I had done some research when Alfy mentioned this name – Alton Ray Baysden, the name was connected to Malik Obama. This connection creeped me out, to say the least.

        Here –
        http://wtpotus.wordpress.com/2013/01/15/rfk-jr-crank-conspiracy-theorist-open-thread/comment-page-2/#comment-102485

        Alton Ray Baysden’s brother’s obit –

        Elmer Harold Baysden
        (October 1, 1923 – October 28, 2012)

        Elmer H. Baysden,age 89, died Sunday, October 28, 2012 in Onslow Memorial Hospital, Jacksonville, NC
        Funeral Service: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 11:00 AM
        First Christian Church of Richlands, Richlands, NC
        Visitation: One hour prior the service
        Interment: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 2:00 PM
        Coastal Carolina State Veterans Cemetery, Jacksonville,NC
        Survivors: Wife of 66 years: Ola Gray Brown Baysden, Richlands, NC
        Sons: Ronald M. Baysden, Richlands, NC
        Michael R. Baysden, Richlands, NC
        Brother: Alton Baysden and wife Joyce, Kinston, NC
        Sister: Maxine Howard, Jacksonville, NC
        Grandson: Christopher M. Baysden and wife Laura, Durham
        Memorial Contributions may be made to First Christian Church of Richlands, Richlands, NC
        http://communityfuneralhomebeulaville.com/fh/obituaries/obituary.cfm?o_id=1759924

        Alton Baysden of Kinston, NC only a few miles from Camp Lejeune, North Carolina.

        Also – was this guy a relative? Furniture store 1950’s, counterfeit money to advance their agenda/cause? keep in mind Jacksonville, North Carolina is only a few miles also of Kinston, NC and Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. I had found at one time an obit (posted here somewhere on one of the post’s) A Stanley Ann Dunham obit for either GA or NC. Just say’in..the connection, just too close for comfort…know what I mean? Pakistan, Dunham, Baysden, the shooter, the Camp Lejeune area connection. Throw all into the mix and it becomes – real? start’s to connect?

        271 F.2d 325: William Earl Baysden, Appellant, v. United States of America, Appellee
        United States Court of Appeals Fourth Circuit. – 271 F.2d 325
        Argued Oct. 7, 1959.Decided Oct. 21, 1959

        William Earl Baysden and another1 were the defendants in the District Court. Baysden operated a furniture store in Jacksonville, North Carolina. During the summer months of 1958 United States Secret Service Agents became aware that counterfeit notes were being circulated in the community of Jacksonville and were investigating the matter. On the morning of September 19, 1958, P. E. Thigpen, a civil service employee of the Federal Government at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, told Talmadge W. Bailey, one of the Secret Service Agents engaged in the investigation, of an experience he had the previous day at the defendant’s store. He said that a salesman was showing him refrigerators and deep freezers and that the salesman had difficulty in opening one of the freezers but, finally, when the door came open he was of box inside which, when opened by the salesman, disclosed a quantity of what appeared to be $20.00 bills and that the salesman said that it was ‘play money’ and put the box back into the freezer and closed the door.
        ~~~~
        Armed with the search warrant, the two agents went to the store. Agent Spicer first entered alone to observe the situation inside. He pretended to be interested in the purchase of a refrigerator and was taken to the wall against which the refrigerators were placed. He noticed one with a ‘Sold’ tag on it and with some difficulty was able to open it. Inside he saw some boxes but did not open them. He then went outside and joined Agent Bailey and other State and Government officers who had assembled to make the search. They entered the store, read the warrant to the defendant, and searched the place. They came to the freezer which Agent Spicer had opened a short time before and opening it with some difficulty found twenty boxes which contained $776,680.00 in counterfeit $20 bills. The defendant was then arrested and indicted.

        http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/271/325/27152/

        Maybe….my mind is in overload, putting too much into it maybe, the connection? What do you think?

        • I’d guess that those Baysdens are related. It’s an unusual name and living in the same city? Seems likely. Yes, what a coincidence–the furniture store in the late 50s. Counterfeiters.

          About that shooting: Other than that this shooter didn’t “kill himself” after shooting the others, it very much resembles the other implausible events we’ve seen over the last four years. A veteran with PTSD (memes: mentally ill with guns, “victim” of GWB’s wars, vets are a danger–they’re all crazy, so disarm them all). Other veterans take him to the shooting range and somehow that’s supposed to help him with his affliction? Too many questions to ask and which probably won’t be answered, but we’ll see. Today’s paper’s story at least said that because Kyle took out so many in the Middle East, there was a “hit” out on him. So, first question: Why do they suspect the guy they arrested?

          You can already imagine the spin: even these trained veterans didn’t recognize the danger. They took him to the shooting range with no clue about what he could do. He got the guns legally, so …

          • This is odd or maybe not: http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/03/us/texas-sniper-killed-kyle-profile/index.html?eref=rss_mostpopular

            So now he’s conveniently deceased. A strong authoritative voice against gun control silenced.

            Another coincidence in the Obamanation. I’m publishing a post about Kyle’s murder, so we have one place to consolidate the comments. It may or may not become an ongoing story. Time will tell. Why are so many of our SEALS being killed?

            • http://www.stripes.com/news/us/american-sniper-chris-kyle-shot-dead-in-a-post-combat-world-1.206360

              ‘American Sniper’ Chris Kyle shot dead in a post-combat world

              … Kyle’s autobiography was unapologetically politically incorrect: During one visit home between deployments, he got a tattoo of a crusader cross on his arm.

              “I wanted everyone to know I was a Christian,” Kyle wrote. “I had it put in in red, for blood. I hated the damn savages I’d been fighting. I always will. They’ve taken so much from me.”

              Authorities said they tracked Routh to his home in Lancaster, Texas, on Saturday evening, where police tried to persuade him to turn himself in. Instead, he made a break for it, and police gave chase.

              He was arrested without a fight after officers spiked his tires on a freeway, Bryant said. A handgun was found in his home, authorities said. They wouldn’t comment on whether he had any other weapons.”

              So he shot those guys, left them dead, and went home. When cops showed up, he ran.

              I added both of the above stories to the new post.

        • you know what else is linked to Malik Obama…..THe Alaska Daily News paper (one of them). I don’t have it in front of me right now, but in searching some other Obama names one address site that shows where one worked previously….it said Malik has worked for Alaska Newspaper….wonder when and how this was associated with his name? Anybody take a stab at it.

    • Sorry for the typos, the text was jumping around on me. Also, those quotes were from the newstimes article, not the NY Post.

      • And one more conflicting account:
        Six of her students were murdered, the rest were later found hiding and terrified in the safety of a closet she had put them in.

        Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2249694/Sandy-Hook-shooting-The-tragic-school-picture-graders-gunned-Adam-Lanza.html#ixzz2KnnMx8mA
        Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

        So, if Im remembering right: EITHER>>>
        Victoria Soto hid her kids and fooled the gunman and NONE died.
        She died huddled with her kids (how many? not sure)
        She died, some of her kids died trying to flee.
        She died, her kids went to Gene Rosen’s house, maybe this happened after all was over and they came out of the closet?
        Or…the account above

        • “What difference, at this point, does it make?” :)

          Yes, one of the above. Take your pick. Something had to happen, so let’s just toss a coin and choose WHICH tale we wish to believe.

          If it does matter, Rosen said that one mother came looking for her child at his house because she’d heard (how?) that he had some kids there. She was hoping her child was with him but the child wasn’t. He says this happened around 12. So the kids he allegedly had in his house were there between shortly after 9:41, at the earliest (or whenever the event happened), and at least noon.

          But you know what? We see him wandering around the fire station parking lot, in that video of the ant-like folks, milling about aimlessly, appearing to circle the station, go in one door and out the other. How could he be in two places at once? Both in his home with children who escaped the massacre of Soto’s class, psychologically counseling them and playing with stuffed animals, AND at the same time, wandering the fire station parking lot, talking on his cell phone?

          If the surviving children (do we have names?) were found in closets “later”, then why would anybody let them out of the closet, not take them to the fire station or turn them over to some authority, but allow them instead to wander off to sit on Rosen’s lawn?

          Where is this mysterious bus driver and why doesn’t she want her 15 minutes of fame? By taking those kids away, she might have saved their lives. Right? Who knew if there were other shooters? Who knew for sure that Lanza was dead?

          Who let those kids out of the closets? Nobody was allowed in the school. It’s assumed that no child was allowed to leave the school until his or her parent(s) came to take custody. So where were they and how did Rosen’s little group escape?

          Let’s say they were on the school bus, the bus was inexplicably late, and the incident that happened either caused the driver to turn around and leave the parking lot of the school or the bus was blocked from getting to the school. In that case, how would the kids know their teacher was dead? In one of the videos, he describes that a child told him blood was coming from her mouth, so they could not, then, have merely been blessedly late for school. Whichever kids were in his house, witnessed her death or else her body. Who were they?

          Wouldn’t you expect that every witness, every survivor, would not leave the premises until they were “debriefed”?

          • Have you watched the video of the (extended) Gene Rosen interview. It’s called something like “Gene Rosen rehearsing his lines…” I’ll try to find it later if you can’t but, lets just say it’s all authentic and true….still SOOOOO Creepy how he talks about those kids.

            • Yes, I watched that one. That’s the one, I think, where he says the mother came by at 12. It’s a different demeanor altogether from the one where he’s so teary-eyed, overcome with emotion, nearly unable to speak–the one where he’s fumbling on his phone, looking for a photo of his grandson.

          • I honestly hadn’t thought of that, but you’re right, this is the scene of a horrible CRIME, would you just let witnesses go home??

            • I wouldn’t think so. Of course, they’re children, so Family Services or counselors might need to be present, along with parents. But they seem to be trying to have it both ways: There’s no need because the shooter is dead, but then again, there’s an investigation on-going. We know this because they got that extension to keep everything locked out of public view for 90 more days, so that potential accomplices won’t be tipped and so potential witnesses won’t be in danger. There’s so much that, at the very least, is UNPROFESSIONAL about how this was handled. This, AFTER Columbine, AFTER 9/11, AFTER billions spent by DHS and other agencies (including “stimulus” funds) to PREPARE and DRILL on how to handle such events.

    • Interesting. NOW they fence in the school and employ video surveillance. Too bad there’s no video (that we know of) of Lanza arriving at the school. How much did that all cost, why did they do it, and for how long will the public (and the media, too, no doubt) be kept from the school? If there WERE cameras around the school before, they’re gone now. The couple saw none.

      “My partner and I spoke with a couple in their early twenties for an hour or so. They were life long locals. Eventually they asked why we were in Newtown and we told them we had heard of their tragedy. They did not comment further and we did not push the issue. Later, I mentioned that I had read online where some people had suggested that Newtown might have a lively Satanic community. One of the two locals remarked, “I could believe that.””

      When they asked the newspaper editor about reports that the man in the woods was a cop from another jurisdiction:

      “Mr. Clark told me that there was a number of “conspiracy theories floating around” and “some of them even suggest that the shooting didn’t even happen.” Furthermore, “Snopes.com debunks many of these conspiracy theories.””

      Snopes! Sounds like a talking point, huh? Why not FactCheck? Round up the usual suspects.

      They went to the police station to ask for the identity of the person in the woods:

      “The female sergeant told me that the man detained was the uncle of a student at the school who had gone to get his niece.”

      Now what’s interesting is that the only alternate story I read was that this man was the guy who went early to the school to make gingerbread men with the kids for Christmas, and he was going to the school to look for his OWN CHILD.

      “I asked about the police scanner audio where the dispatcher reports that a caller from inside the school saw “two shadows” run by the gym at the back of the school.

      Additionally, an officer apparently arriving at the scene stated

      I’ve got ‘em (sic). They are running at me down Crestwood.”

      Crestwood Drive borders that backside of the school beyond some woods. The sergeant told me that this was the confusion of the day and that there were not two individuals.

      “It was just someone that went crazy, killed a bunch of people and then killed himself,” she said consolingly.

      “You have nothing to worry about. You are safe.”

      I still wonder.”

      So in the confusion of the day, people inside the school saw two shadows, the person on the scanner reported that, and then another cop tells the dispatcher that s/he SEE THE TWO running right on the road that the people in the school said they were on? But it was just “confusion”? Right. I still wonder, too.

      • What’s to serveil?

      • Yeah, let’s see the bullet holes everywhere, then there’s evidence of exactly how much he used a particular weapon. Bet we’ll never see that, only a couple bullet holes outside in a car which is highly unlikely to be shot from the building. Let’s see the window it projected out of? I think they just needed some evidence that there were some bullets fired and they already knew we would not see inside the vbuilding.

    • Quite an interesting read there, including the comments. I have one question that is nagging me, however.

      On of the last comments has links to the principals tweets, and the volunteer fire dept. If you go to the links, look at the date of the fire drill according to the fire dept. It states Oct. 12, and it is raining.

      Go to the principal’s tweets, and she says it’s Oct. 17, and it’s a nice day. Am I missing something?

      Also, the fire dept. has posted a picture of the kids outside the school. Would the trees have started changing colors by Oct. 12th in CT?

    • Here’s an interesting link i ran into reading the link ^ ^

      its a conversation (and seems like eavesdropping)

      http://sandyhooktruth.wordpress.com/2013/01/25/iroqouis-gas-line-through-newtown-ct/

  4. I don’t know if we’ve linked or read these before, but here are two more versions of what’s going on with Sandy Hook:
    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/12/27/sandy-hook-huge-hoax-and-anti-gun-psy-op/

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/01/30/the-nexus-of-tyranny-the-strategy-behind-tucson-aurora-and-sandy-hook/

    I haven’t read them yet myself.

    • what’s to surveil now?
      My question is how come this sleepy little town has swat ready teams and federal looking police and so many to that school in minutes and the roads are blocked”””and how are some 600 students taken to the firehouse, what vehicles were used for that…and where are they? that would be quite a fete and a show too….to have that many at a firehouse, yet no pictures, no newspaper article with an unsual photo such as that….firemen and firehouses are a big attention grabber for a swarthy news article, yet no article like that.

      • Good point, alfy. You know how the media loves to praise the (unionized, public employee) first responders. (I’m not saying they’re not praiseworthy; I’m just pointing out what alfy said–it’s out of character for the lamestream.) The sheer lack of PANIC is what strikes me about this whole thing. If it were a drill that turned into the real thing, then that might explain the lack of panic, for those who didn’t yet realize what truly happened. They might discount news reports about a shooting, thinking it was all part of the drill. If it was a drill, then that explains the glut of first responders, etc., in that “sleepy little town.” What kind of budget do they have, anyway? With all that new fencing and the cameras, it almost appears as if it’s now more important to protect the crime scene than it was to protect those kids. What kind of school doesn’t have alarms when the doors/windows are broken? Doesn’t have locks on doors? It didn’t make sense that day and it still doesn’t make sense. There’s an air of surreality around it and I sensed that on day one.

      • I notice in the photo above too, supposedly at the firehouse..notice how the man on his knee with child and woman is covering the license area of the vehicle. Interestiiiing.

    • I did skim these yesterday and it seemed valid until I hit the part about Israel being behind the shooting, and then it all derailed. Take it for what it’s worth.

    • CT State Emergency System Hijacked

      We can now prove that the entire CT State emergency communications system was ‘hijacked’ and ‘unplugged’ on December 14th., 2012, per an elaborate frequency change plan implemented merely 5 hours in advance on that morning, effectively supplanting and replacing normal police and EMS with FEMA / DHS ‘shadow’ command center personnel, where it turns out that they (the HOAX perpetrators from FEMA) made one critical mistake that they hoped nobody would catch. But last night, I caught it. During the listening to the plethora of radio scanner audio recordings, I finally had a chance to hear the infamous plate run of the black Honda. I had for weeks taken for granted that others who heard it would have validated it as either fakery or reality but nobody caught the fact it is in it’s entirely, FAKE.

      Police and Dispatch, nation wide, use a very time honored ALPHA PHONETIC System to enunciate alpha numeric data between the officers and the dispatchers. It is different from what military use, and it is so ingrained and dyed into the wool of real law enforcement and dispatchers for a good reason. Any error can cost not only the officer his life, but potentially cost others their lives either by sending people to the wrong address or by implicating the wrong person in a crime, or missing a criminal during a CODE TEN run on the person through the system.

      During the course of the running of the black Honda, this ALPHA PHONETIC police and dispatch protocol was totally out the window and not used at all.

      http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/01/30/the-nexus-of-tyranny-the-strategy-behind-tucson-aurora-and-sandy-hook/

      • Bridgette, where does the info in your post come from? One of the above links?

        • Yes, it was from one of the URL’s that Miri cited. I added the URL it so it is clear where the info came from.

          There are also screenprints of the radio frequency transmissions as proof that the normal transmissions were operational but the ones about Sandy Hook were on another channel. I didn’t know that this information was available.

      • Wow. That’s interesting. As I said, I skimmed it yesterday and I didn’t even catch that part. I wonder if there’s anything to it?

        • It is interesting, as is the concern you cited below about “other suspects”. I am getting a little (ok, a LOT) weary of claims of PROOF, however, the turn out to be more like…evidence, or speculation?? Or, they require such a specialized degree of knowledge of a subject (such as how police dispatchers ALWAYS talk to each other) that it’s impossible for the average person to know.

        • What’s creepy as hell is what he writes about the photo of the Parkers. I picked up on the fact that Emilie seems added in and excluded but the thing about the fingers. They DO look photoshopped. It’s disturbing.

          • I know!!!!!!! Is it possible (well, anything is possible but I think it needs to be at least considered for the sake of unbiased research) someone doctored it after the fact? That is, to MAKE it look creepy? Cuz it sure is.

            • It is possible. I guess we’d have to look for other examples. What is the provenance of that photo, anyway? Isn’t it curious that it seems that the only family that met with Barry and took photos with him, just 2 days after the massacre of their little Emilie, were the Parkers? And it looked like such a happy occasion, too. If that WASN’T two days later, then WHEN exactly was it that the family met Barry?

          • oh, from the get go~ that “family” photo is the stupidest thing I ever saw.
            who do they think they’re kidding?

          • Although, I don’t find it odd at all that she’s sitting “by herself” as some people have pointed out. The other two are basically toddlers, and she’s in school. To me it’s a perfectly normal place for her to be seated.

  5. Sandy Hook DA cites ‘potential suspects’, fears witnesses safety http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/342829#ixzz2KADXs1TJ

    • Say what?

      Sandy Hook DA cites ‘potential suspects,’ fears witness safety

      Connecticut State’s Attorney Stephen Sedensky has argued that unsealing warrants in the Sandy Hook case might “seriously jeopardize” the investigation by disclosing information known only to other “potential suspects.”

      Sedensky said that unsealing the warrants would also:

      identify persons cooperating with the investigation, thus possibly jeopardizing their personal safety and well-being.”

      The statement by the CT prosecutor’s office is the first indication from state authorities that Adam Lanza may have not acted alone. [Or at all?] The statement was made in support of a motion to continue the seal on the results of five search warrants for 90 more days. …

      Little else is known about what the authorities may be referring to in support of the motion to seal the affidavits for another 90 days beyond the normal statutory allowance of 14 days. Lt. Vance did say in a press conference on December 15, 2012, somewhat apologetically for not being able to answer all of the reporters’ questions, that there were “some cards that we’re holding close to our vest.”

      State’s Attorney Sedensky wrote in the motion that:

      “No arrests have been made and none are currently anticipated, but have not been ruled out.”

      Sedensky said:

      “There is information in the search warrant affidavits that is not known to the general public” … ”

      At the link, they have an image of the motion.

    • How the post-Sandy Hook gun control push spectacularly backfired in America

      In the aftermath of the tragic Sandy Hook shooting, the gun grabbers across America unleashed a full court press to try to wholly disarm American citizens. With the help of the incessantly anti-gun mainstream media, people like Biden, Bloomberg, Cuomo, Feinstein and Obama managed to stir up a frenzy of fabricated fear that promised all our children would be violently gunned down if we didn’t immediately agree to turn in all our guns and ammo magazines.

      The push for gun control, however, has spectacularly backfired. In reality, it has hardened the positions of gun rights advocates while massively increasing the number of AR-15s and other firearms sold across the country.

      The backfire is far worse than the gun grabbers could have possibly imagined when they launched their efforts on the graves of the dead Sandy Hook children. …”

      Article continues with evidence to support why it backfired, including the run on guns and how hundreds of thousands have JOINED the NRA.

      Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/038970_gun_control_backfired_America.html#ixzz2KKjKH7CE

      Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/038970_gun_control_backfired_America.html#ixzz2KKj27Bma

  6. if this is a lie, then someone went to an awful lot of trouble. wow, reads like a novel. its a comment from the link from upthred:
    http://memoryholeblog.com/2013/01/28/an-inquisitive-couples-visit-to-newtown-connecticut/#comment-6053

    http://memoryholeblog.com/2013/01/28/an-inquisitive-couples-visit-to-newtown-connecticut/#comment-6053

    January 30, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    PLEASE READ AND FOLLOW LINK TO MAPS;

    Ok, I’ve not seen this out much – but, what
    I think one of the more interesting aspects to this is the relation of the Iroquois gas line, the major squabble over it being put in through where Sandy Hook elementary is, and that also most all of the victims houses line up to where the gas line as put through. Coincidentally, many of the houses the victims were supposed to have lived in at the time of the shooting were all sold on 12/25/09, which is the same time Iroquois gas, Newtown, and the State of Connecticut can be found to have purchased most, if not almost all of the victims homes – which in another remarkable coincidence..all line up under where Iroquois Gas ran their new line.

    Here is some of the info, and Ill leave the link where you can see the maps of how the homes have been plotted via google ~ and they line up perfectly (along w Sandy Hook Ele.) w the gas line.

    While reviewing property appraisal records of the Sandy Hook victims, I noticed that there are many cases where “last sold date” is listed as 12/25/09 – too many to be a coincidence. I looked at the entries for these properties in more detail and none of them correlate with that date (12/25/09). They have various sale dates listed but nothing on 12/25/09.
    Here’s an example – 37 Yogananda St.
    While looking at areas near Sandy Hook school, I noticed that Treadwell Park is right behind it. Look closely at the sign at the park: (It says “Iroquois Gas Transmission System”, St. of Conn. etc) In the Region: Connecticut and Westchester; Making the Iroquois Pipeline Palatable
    By ELEANOR CHARLES
    May 24, 1992
    THE Iroquois Gas Transmission System may have found an aspirin for the headaches its highway and corporate construction projects cause communities they intrude upon.(…)..Embarked on a $10 million program to compensate 60 New York State and Connecticut towns disrupted by the installation of its 370-mile-long natural gas pipeline. The money will pay for the purchase of open space and the enhancement of environmental and recreational facilities. (cont.)
    Announcement in 1986 of the taking of private property under a Federal mandate created a firestorm of protest in the affected towns. In Connecticut, residential communities beginning with Sherman at the crossover point from New York State, then winding through New Milford, Brookfield, Newtown, (both articles @ link)
    Phase 1, a 1.6 mile pipeline loop in Newtown, CT, was placed into service November 14, 2008.
    From this newsletter, here are a couple of photos of the pipeline installations. Also note that the newsletter is from Winter ’09 which would be consistent with the “last sold date” of 12/25/09.
    ***I looked at all the properties of the child victim’s homes since they all live in and around Sandy Hook. I believe the adult victims are all from residing areas, outside of the Newtown area.
    I mapped the school and all of the victim’s properties and compared it to the gas line loop just to see if there was any commonality.
    (Posted Image)
    **As you can see, many of the homes are right near the gas line loop. The bottom marker is actually Fan Hill Rd in Monroe. I marked it just to see where it fell on the line since the new Sandy Hook school is supposedly there.
    Many of the victim’s properties show that at least some of the homes were purchased by Iroquois Gas, the state of Connecticut and the town of Newtown. This happens to be the street where the Pozner’s are supposed to live..**
    Another thing that’s very odd is that all of the streets in Sandy Hook appear to be privately owned. You are not able to see them with Google Street View. I can’t see any of the homes of victims and I looked around in the general area and none of the side streets can be viewed.
    I looked at my own street in my subdivision and I could see it with street view. The street behind me is private and sure enough, I couldn’t use Street view on it.
    If you look at the victim’s properties on Spokeo, the majority of them don’t show up as a residence. You can see a house but it isn’t highlighted as a residence with a list of names.
    I also found a couple of websites that list Newtown schools but do not include Sandy Hook school.
    To view the rest, maps most of all go to;

    http://sandyhooktruth.wordpress.com/2013/01/25/iroqouis-gas-line-through-newtown-ct/

    I find this to be more than interesting (and yet another WILD coincidence)…that so many of the victims homes, and the school would line up right under recently acquired property of Iroquois Gas, St. of Conn. and Newtown Also remember how many ppl were relatively new to the area, even a neighbor of the Lanzas said that while most neighbors knew each other – they did not know the Lanzas.
    Just take a look at the maps on this link, and I think it will “click” for you – that here again..something just isnt right here.
    Also along w Adam Lanza being shown as having died a day before, he also does not show up as being an associated person w Peter and Nancy – only Ryan shows up. (and recall the first stories that were sourced to unnamed officials – about how there was a body found in Ryans Hoboken Apartment, and that his girlfriend and her friend were missing!? It was even in the first reports that Peter Lanza was dead –
    My point is – this isnt just confusion from trying to report quickly on an intense story – these were entirely different story lines!
    I hope someone here would lay this out, pictures included..so that it is easier for the viewer to see what I tried to explain in words.

    Although this isnt direct evidence of anything – I think it is an important part of piecing this highly strange story together.

    Penelope
    February 4, 2013 at 12:49 am

    Reply to Lee: Tremendous research. Thank you.

    • So is this inferring that the homes were really vacant and ready to be torn down? This is beyond belief. How many people would have to be involved in such a conspiracy that no one would have a conscience and come forward with the truth? Did actors take residence in the “sold” homes? Was there ever a full listing of the children that died? Or was it piecemeal information, with a funeral service here and there? How many relatives from out of town went to those funerals?

      • think about this. 600 students in one school, they all have parents, and extended family members and friends, many living in other States, perhaps… nary a peep.

      • I was going to ask the same questions. Were the homes built on top the pipeline and then bought out because people found out that the pipeline was there and there was fear of leaks? Was the pipeline built after the homes, somehow placed beneath them with a big drilling machine, like they sometimes use for sewer systems, and THEN they bought out the homes? Were these homes vacant or did the people simply get some kind of compensation? Or did the company buy them out and then resell them to people after disclosing that the pipeline is there? Too many variables. So was the school itself on top the gas pipeline?

        • following the links from the original Link, we find that there was a book written about the area during the 60s and this school wasn’t even mentioned as existing. the links are very interesting with maps and graphs….

        • take notice of this New York paper article. Notice what it says about school districts that have to comply with the appraisals and how they stand to lose the MOST ReVENUE for towns (but not if your school had to be torn down for some reason?). Could this same scenerio be happening for Newtown.
          Then looking further I notice that Iroquois gas was helping (sponsor/money donations) sponsor a boys and Girls Club in a nearby area,as was a Newtown Bank)…hmm.
          Also, a Canada gas company, TRANSCANADA is 44.5 percent of Iroquois Gas Transmission Stystem. They connect somewhere in New York and serve much of EAST Coast. Hmmmmm……..There’s more.
          Wonder who owns stock in Iroquois Gas…..is this some backdoor to Keystone? There is also Iroquois County ,Waseka ,Illionois….that’s 60 miles from Chicago….thought I’d see what connects it might have, because Iroq.Gas lines there too.
          First check this quick article …as I think it would help in your ‘thinking cap’.
          http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20120911/NEWS05/709119907/0/FRONTPAGE

          • I’ve been looking for news articles. It seems as if there was a quid pro quo going on between environmentalists and NIMBYs on one hand and the gas corp. on the other. It seems as if in return for the “taking” of the right of way, they had to buy up and return to “green space” other properties. That park is one of the properties that was given in return for the right of way. I don’t know enough about real estate to know whether or not they also bought out properties that were considered “distressed” on account of being next to or over that gas pipeline. It’s possible. I saw on one site somewhere the allegation that the Parkers paid about $389,000 for their home in Sandy Hook within the past year or so? However long they were in the area. I thought I saw somewhere that they came from Utah and very recently. Since the town was “renovated” beginning in 2010. I don’t know about home values in CT, but I do know that everything on the east coast, especially in bedroom communities, is pricey. Those look like large homes, so they’d be even more expensive, especially if newer, which they look to be. In the good ole Midwest, homes like that cost FAR MORE than $389,000, although less now that Barney Fwank has destroyed the housing market. In any case, maybe they got a good deal on foreclosures or maybe a good deal because the homes were re-sold as distressed by the gas company. It would be interesting to know. It’s rather curious that the website had the same date of last sale for many of the victims’ homes, but it might be an anomaly, where the program defaults to a date of creation of the record, in lieu of having the correct date? It may be that the company bought more properties than they needed to return to green space, and so when they realized they didn’t need to raze them and make another park out of them, they decided to sell, which also would explain why the people living in them were relatively new to the area.

      • Don’t know but I do recall victim families asking/demanding no reporters/cameras/journalists please, just let us have our funerals and grieve in peace. I thought, ..really… but then maybe there was another alterior motive behind that request. We did get one or two funerals ,although they seemed to be capitalized on in such a way, that again, they almost seemed rehearsed.

      • Hey, I’ve got a far fetched idea….THe actor dude that claims the poor victims came to his house with a bus driver and appeared on his lawn. One of you guys posted him showing him to be retired and having some sort of pet sitting bussiness and he uses his camera for photos. He says he’s retired, used to work for the STATE. I am assuming he means worked for state of Connecticut.Wonder what job he had at the state? Maybe mapping, or taking photos of property for appraisals for the state or working with gas companies and their right of ways (like Iriquois gas , ect., ect..

        Maybe we should see what job he retiredfrom.
        If it weren’t for this guy, the whole Sandy Hook thing would not have stood out as much as being so weird and unbelievable. He’s just eerily not real.

    • http://web.archive.org/web/20110826015412/http://realestate.aol.com/schools-listings/Newtown_CT

      In August 2011, there were only 8 schools listed and no Sandy Hook. They’ve put a robots txt on the website for the Newtown Public Schools, so there’s no way to see what it said before this event. However, I did find archived news articles that mentioned the Sandy Hook school. There’s a page for Sandy Hook here: http://www.schooldigger.com/go/CT/schools/0291000617/school.aspx It contains graphs showing historical information about things such as test scores, going back to 2004. Maybe the databases that don’t show it are simply not up to date?

      • You know what’s odd? It’s such a sparsely populated area, from the satellite maps of the “village” of Sandy Hook, that I wonder where 600 kids would come from to go to elementary school there. If it’s that they were bused in from the rural areas around the school, then one would expect to see a whole bunch of buses in the parking lot. Did you see any?

      • In wickipedia , it shows Sandy Hook’s Budget for the school year 2008-09 was aprox. 81,000,000. PRetty good budget…why 08 and 09 and not a more recent budget amount? I think this school was Hawley’s High School, it’s hard to tell from Wicki. The land was donated to the town by Ms. Mary Elizabeth Hawley ( worth reading) and the adjacent property donated by Cornelius Byron Taylor.

    • here’s what these gas line thingies entail.

      if you read this, scroll down and find the Northeast Hubs.

      i had no idea of this “industry”… intracontinental. makes me wonder what is bad about the Keystone Pipeline??? rumor has it that its in the hands of China on our Terrain… who knows.

    • Press release from Iroquois Gas, apparently. I can’t link it.
      “SHELTON, Conn., Nov. 17 /PRNewswire/ — Iroquois Gas Transmission System, L.P. (“Iroquois”) announced today that it has completed Phase I of its 08/09 Expansion Project placing a new 1.6 mile pipeline loop in-service. The loop, located in Newtown, CT, began flowing natural gas on November 14, 2008.

      The 08/09 Expansion Project, planned in three phases, will allow Iroquois to receive an additional 200 million cubic feet per day of natural gas at its interconnect with Algonquin Pipeline in Brookfield, CT and deliver the volumes to National Grid’s KeySpan system at South Commack, Long Island.

      Phase II, construction of two new 10,300 horsepower compressor units in Milford, CT, is currently underway with a targeted in-service date of January 1, 2009. The third phase, construction of a second 10,300 horsepower compressor unit at Iroquois’ existing Brookfield Compressor Station in Brookfield, CT, is expected to begin by year’s end.

      About Iroquois

      Iroquois Gas Transmission System, L.P. is the owner of an interstate pipeline extending 411 miles from the US-Canadian border at Waddington, NY, through the state of Connecticut to South Commack, Long Island, NY and Hunts Point, Bronx, NY. The company is regulated by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (“FERC”). Since going into operation in December 1991, Iroquois has more than doubled its design day throughput capacity which will increase to 1.45 Bcf/d following the completion of the 08/09 Expansion Project. The pipeline is operated by the Iroquois Pipeline Operating Company, a wholly owned subsidiary of Iroquois.

      Iroquois is a Limited Partnership owned by affiliates of TransCanada PipeLines Limited, Dominion Resources, Inc., National Grid U.S., New Jersey Resources and Energy East Corp.”

  7. I found something interesting at http://www.outsidethegarden.blogspot.com/ I didn’t even realize how recent this article is (Feb 13) but it’s a “debunking the debunkers” article specifically refuting a Huffington Post article.
    MOST interesting is his first sentence, eh?

    Memorial pages were up before the shooting…
    While I have another journalist who is following up on people in the Newtown area who are witnesses who can corroberate that they actually were on the pages in question on the day before the incident but are afraid to go public, I would like to address this pragmatically. I have been posting for over ten years and I have contacted Yahoo, Google, and MSN. They confirm that while mistakes can happen on postings, that they are 98% reliable in their accuracy. Further, that has been my experience…I have never had an error on any of my postings. One page might be almost good enough to debunk this concern about the account. However, there were several pages that all had errors. Acham’s Razor says that isn’t a coincidence even with the margin of error. Not Debunked!

    • I’m skeptical that he’s a “journalist” based upon the errors in the text, but that’s neither here nor there. What’s new, at least to me, is this:

      “Why, if when the first tv media arrived they were kept in a staging area some 1/4 mile away because there was concern for a second shooter around the school, was the remainder of the 600 students exposed to the danger of that shooter by walking them that long distance to the firehouse? This fact has been confirmed by Kent Pierce of Channel 8 in Danbury to me. All of the students were evacuated before TV media arrived.

      If that is true and if the 600 students were already at the fire station, then what in the world can we make of that crowd of “parents” who milled around and seemed to walk out one door, as if in a parade, around the building and (it looked like) back into the fire house?

      This seems too pat. Questions were raised about why the media showed none of the 600 kids. A huge lack of images of the many, many children who were allegedly in the building but somehow got out BEFORE the media arrived or ELSE they were kept at the school until some later point, but the media, for whatever reason, just didn’t film them evacuating the building. This makes NO SENSE.

      • I hesitate to post this one. Obviously it’s incredibly interesting if true but how would you verify something like this “eyewitness” account? I thought when I saw the title it might be someone’s cell phone video or pics.

        http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/122987/SANDY_HOOK__Only_Known_Eyewitness_Account_of_the_Fire_Station_30_MINUTES_BEFORE_911_WAS_CALLED/

        • That link you gave before about debunking says to look at this video:

          I’m not convinced by the shadows because it does appear to me that the people have longer shadows during the evacuation than when others are filmed from the helicopter. The reason the car shadows seem shorter, imho, is that it’s ambient light because the sun is so low that the school somewhat screens those cars in the front rows. They ARE the same cars, so the famous evacuation picture of the kids with hands on each other’s shoulders was likely taken the same day. This analysis begins about 4 minutes into the video, followed by Katie Couric with some parents. One mother arrived at the school right around the time of the shooting. She says she saw 8 or 10 kids run by her, towards the fire station, which is “odd.” What’s odd to me is that they passed at least two adults but said nothing to them, because at least two mothers walked right up to the school and saw the broken plate glass window. One mother says that she saw the car with all doors open and black sweatshirtS scattered on the ground around it. Multiple black sweatshirts, not just one. Are we to believe that Lanza had a bunch of sweatshirts and threw the ones he didn’t choose to wear inside onto the ground outside, around his car? Someone then said it was supposed to be bulletproof glass (so how did it break)? Then these two mothers heard gunshots. She ran. Katie says “you were ushered to safety; you were waiting by the fire truck” (ushered by whom?) and “you started to see kids stream out of the building,” and she answers “yes.” She says they were all staying in a single file line, with teachers at the head. Then Katie asks the father about when he arrived later and she says he had the job of “going into the school.” He went into the school? And he talks about how there were still children inside, who “hadn’t emerged yet.”

          • Wow, I had never seen the video of Lt. Vance saying there would be prosecution for any misinformation on this case. Wow. That may be the scariest thing I’ve seen regarding this event.
            I was just watching another video that included the interview with the woman who said she got the text from CBS…and the screen said it was 11:46 at the time and they STILL were reporting 3 eeople in the hospital, maybe 2 or 3 people shot, etc.

            Like you, I didn’t watch this live but HOW could that be? The shooting stopped 2 hours prior; how could they be that far off still on the magnitude of the shootings?

          • I forgot what the situation was with Lt. Vance’s statement. I THINK, iirc, that it had to do with someone impersonating the shooter and posting stuff online, which was confounding the cops in their investigation and causing pain for the families. I don’t think he meant it the way some have interpreted it. As for the text from CBS, I suspect, but can’t prove, that the woman was not talking about the network but about some local organization that sends cell “alerts”, like when a school system sets up a notification for tornado warnings.

          • Was just looking at “shadows” and…OK, someone please tell me how I am wrong here because I MUST be wrong and I can’t figure it out. Don’t look at the length of the shadows, look at the direction. Now look at a map of the school and where the parking lot is. Now…tell me where the sun is coming from. I don’t even want to say what I think I see, because I must be wrong.

          • From the maps I see at both Mapquest http://www.mapquest.com/maps?cat=Pre-Schools&city=Sandy%20Hook&state=CT and in the Hartford Courant, http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/newtown-sandy-hook-school-shooting/hc-map-of-sandy-hook-elementary-school-20121214,0,5176310.htmlstory , those cars in the parking lot have to be pointing southwest, perhaps a little more south than west, but just a tad. The people have to be moving past the row of cars in a southeasterly direction. It looks to me as if the entire front of the school faces to the northeast. The sun ought to be rising in an east/southeasterly direction. You can triangulate by looking at the roads on Mapquest, which contains a compass indicating north. I was never great at trigonometry. Anybody? I suppose it would depend upon how high in the sky the sun was when the video was taken.

          • OK, so we agree on the orientation of the school. It faces NE, or maybe NNE slightly. The shadows point slightly more north than the direction of the front of the building (that faces the parking lot) and they are long. So the sun should be coming from a southerly direction since it is winter but doesn’t the light have to be generally coming from a southWEST direction for the shadows to go toward the northeast? Then again, has this video ever identified the time it was there or even where it comes from? Do you know if it exists somewhere as part of a newsfeed?

            • I’ve seen that video linked from many places, but never saw anything that tells us WHO shot it, when, or how it got distributed.

          • Shadows? No problem there’s much more than that wrong with these photos. Notice in first ariel view all no cars parked up close to the building. Yet there are many cars parked there in the view of the kids in a line.Photoshop busy at work, because in another shot you’ll see the kids standing in front of the end of school (where the black car is supposed to be, yet there aare all the cars lined up. Now notice too the three people in the forground are standing in on on the letters that say drop off. That isn’t there in the helicopter photo andywhere on the parking lot.. In fact the pattern of the arrow doesn’t coincide with the parking lot shot of the children and the helicopter shots. Believe me, something wrong again with these photos. I’ve even searched the parking lot and none of these cars are anywhere in sight that are in the photo with the children in a line. Perhaps these photos are from a parking lot at another school, something, because they aren’t here.
            Again , no big deal about the shadows, because from the early heli shot there are no cars parked up close to this part of this schoo. As a matter of fact, there is no parking spaces in front of this part of the school.
            The lady that claims to have gone to the school , saw the window broken, thinks something is strange, yet she still hears bullets firing, and runs to a nearby firetruck……..so during this cours of time (when the shots are being fired, if ther is already a firetruck on the scene, why wouldn’t she be hearing sirens at least a few seconds before she arrived, or better yet if I drove up to my childs school and all these vehicles were enroute or there was a firetruck in the parking lot…I think something would have told me something appears to be awry. She’s full of you know what .

        • It’s rather convincing, isn’t it? A drill. 3:06 into the video: “Everyone must check in.” I don’t blame him for not identifying himself. What he did say is enough that people who know him might recognize him. And his wife works at the middle school, which wasn’t on lockdown when the news reported that they were. “Potable water will be provided for all exercise participants …” Remember the stacks of bottled water on the floor right there in the fire station? “Wear your name badge.” Remember all the people, including those mannish nuns, with name badges?

          • It took me several times before I finally saw the “Everyone must check in sign”! I would really like to know what the folding sign just over Gene Rosen’s right shoulder said.

            • I think I saw a reference to that sign in comments on some other blog but didn’t know what it meant. Now we know what it meant, but we don’t know WHY that sign was there over Rosen’s shoulder and we don’t know WHAT he was doing and WHY he, of all people, played such a big role that day. He was literally everywhere. And he’s an actor! I saw somewhere else but didn’t have time to research it, that he only went to two years of community college, so he’s exaggerating to call himself a psychologist.

          • Also I interpreted the “his wife works at the middle school” quote as that is what this guy heard the reporter on the radio say. That is, the guy on the RADIO had a wife who worked at the school and disputed the official report. THAT should have made someone take notice, don’t you think?

  8. And this? Had you heard this about the federal vehicles in town before the 911 calls?

    “There are even more much more dramatic theories that aren’t addressed here. Here is my favorite.
    —Why, if when the first tv media arrived they were kept in a staging area some 1/4 mile away because there was concern for a second shooter around the school, was the remainder of the 600 students exposed to the danger of that shooter by walking them that long distance to the firehouse? This fact has been confirmed by Kent Pierce of Channel 8 in Danbury to me. All of the students were evacuated before TV media arrived.

    —Other questions….where are the rest of the Newtown Bee’s Shannon Hicks’ photos of the evacuation and how was she able to get so close to the school?
    ….Why were there multiple witness reports of droves of federal vehicles in downtown Newtown on the way to the school a full half hour before the first 911 call came in?
    ….Why has the media not questioned the issue of emergency drills being scheduled that day by the school that day as confirmed by Facebook and other online sources?”
    http://www.outsidethegarden.blogspot.com/2013/02/debunking-debunking-of-sandy-hook-hoax.html

    • I hadn’t heard that about federal vehicles seen before the shooting was reported, but there was a scheduled shooting DRILL in another school district not far from Sandy Hook that very morning. However, even that seems like a convenient explanation for yet another observed anomaly. Allegedly, these people asked if they were needed at Sandy Hook but were told no.

      • And has anyone seen this?http://planet.infowars.com/worldnews/usnews/33-changes-to-the-connecticut-statewide-emergency-radio-network-hours-before-the-newtown-shooting
        I don’t really understand the significance (if anyone does please explain)

        but it shows a number of updates to the connecticut emergency radio network in the hours prior to the shootings. For reference it shows only one or two in the previous week.

        • Barry’s giving posthumous medals to people who died at Sandy Hook. Do you think that he gave medals to Chris Kyle’s family? Or the families of the policemen who just were murdered in cold blood in CA? Do you think ANY of those families have YET heard from Obama? Any sympathy at all? From Barry or Mooch?

        • I don’t understand this. Maybe someone who knows about radios can advise?

          Every bit of information about these drills ought to be public information, including, I would assume, the contractors providing the services. FOIA. See what companies provide the actors and other assets for these drills. We pay for this. It’s OUR TAX DOLLARS paying for this. Where is the transparency?

          • I thought maybe ya’ll saw the video of a guy who lives in Newtown says somewhere between 8 and 9:00 a.m. he went to a store for milk? At first he noticed alot of silver and grey vehicles on the side of the road, then as he neared the firehouse there was lots of vehicles, like something was going on. This was all before 9:30. On his way back the roads were blocked and was told he’d have to take a different root. He asked the guy what was going on…..interesting answer he got…can’t remember now….anyway he turned up his radio to see what was going on. They said all schools were on lockdown. His wife taught at the middle school not far from there so he calls her and she says they weren’t on lockdown and didn’t know about it. Have any of you seen that video?
            He didn’t know alot of the people that died, said Newtown was fairly small, but he did know of the actor guy …….who he said was a very creepy person.

            • Yes, we talked about it yesterday. I’ll try to find where. I agree with the “creepy” description. Here: http://wtpotus.wordpress.com/2013/01/08/sandy-hook-a-ruse-open-thread/comment-page-4/#comment-105075

              And it does seem to be the radio reporter whose wife worked at another school in Newtown, because the eye witness account has that paragraph in quotations marks. He was relating what the reporter said. That he’d called his wife and she said they WERE NOT on lockdown, so he was skeptical himself and was concerned that it appeared that they didn’t have their facts straight before reporting about the shooting.

              It’s also of note that the eye witness knows one of the women and he wonders where she got all the money to dress (I presume) for the cameras. He says he knows Rosen but not the Parker and Phelps families, even though it’s a small town. I wonder if he knows the Lanzas.

          • You would think if he knew the Lanzas he would have stated so here.
            http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/nyregion/horrors-of-newtown-shooting-scene-are-slow-to-fade.html?_r=0
            I’m still in the dark as to what artillary Lanza had on him. This is the cops telling their story of what happened. Notice the important tidbits in this story. Notice how when the cops first see the ladies dead (doesn’t seem like they checked) on the floor , he says he thought how it looked likea mock scene. How bazar for a cop to make note of that. then of course they say his bushmaster was on the floor and Lanza was dead in one of the rooms. Where are his other weapons. They think there are other shooters possibly but don’t appear to be looking for any as they make their way into other classrooms. They say they kick at the doors and almost yank a door knob off, but in other reports there’s a report of them talking soothingly to the teachers so the teacher will open the doors. There are 600 students, why are they finished checking and reporting to other officers? This supposedly all occurred in just a few minutes, but to check the entire school and be certain no shooters are hiding somewhere would take a long coordinated exercise. I know this as my brother has been involved in a case of two teenage shooters at a high school. There were officers (all local police handled the scene and no big media fanfare either) on the rooves for hours, checking even up inside ceiling areas.The Penna guy says he came over from Newberry middle school…..meaning he would have heard it at the same time as the police department, but they have walkie talkies and at this time of morning he would be relegated to traffic duty or things of that nature, possibly nowhere near a police scanner, if he is a school safety officer (my neihgbor is one). If he knew other schools were on lock down, he would be needed at his own school….this is important, because if I recall even the news said all the schools were on lockdown till they knew what was taking place. And this, I think is the school the young man says his wife worked at who said they didn’t know about it and they weren’t on lockdown. Which is it?
            I can see evacuating all the children to a safe location, for safety in case there was explosives in the building they weren’t sure of, but we’re never told that as a reason ,but where are they and how did it occur….we’re not really told . Where are the fifth graders and what do they have to say..?

            • alfy, I’m reading that story now and that’s what jumped out at me, too: That he thought it looked like a “mock crime scene” and “fake”. Now how often do cops SEE “mock” or fake crime scenes? I would expect far less often than they see REAL ones. So why would he EXPECT a mock or fake scene?

              Another thing: The woman in that one video, who said she arrived to a quiet school, saw the broken glass of the door, where ANOTHER mother was standing, saw 8 to 10 kids run past her (without them talking to her or warning her), and then both women heard shots. She didn’t mention any “school resource officer” who’d arrived from the MIDDLE SCHOOL (how far away is it?) NOR did she mention the cops arriving at the front and back simultaneously. So she was standing there at the door with another woman AS SHOTS were being fired and the cops STILL HEARD SHOTS when they arrived within 3 minutes of the 911 call. You’d think they’d have seen each other. You’d think the cops would mention those mothers standing at the door.

              alfy, you are correct! The radio reporter said that his wife works at the middle school and it was not on lockdown, (would it be on lockdown if they expected a DRILL at the elementary school)? Not on lockdown even after the reporter was told to report that it was on lockdown, so that means this Penna guy, the middle school resource officer, must have worked at the same school with that reporter’s wife. You’re right. He’d be at his own school, not ARRIVING with the first cops on the scene.

              I’m really leaning towards this being a planned drill that was false-flagged or hijacked by someone with inside information (like perhaps Lanza) into a real incident, unless, of course, the entire thing is “fake” and the whole world is being punked (which of course I would prefer to believe for the sake of the “victims” but not for the sake of this Republic).

              Where’s the one little girl who was found all bloody but unhurt among the bodies of her classmates? How and why did she escape? Where are the two other women who rushed Lanza along with the psychologist and the principal? How did they escape? Or did they? If not, then why didn’t he shoot them?

              “Officer Penna returned to the second classroom, his rifle slung around his chest, grabbed the uninjured girl by the arm and ran with her out to a triage area set up in the parking lot.”

              TRIAGE AREA ALREADY SET UP in the parking lot. ALL WITHIN MINUTES. Before the school was even evacuated?

              Oh, do you see? “They omitted some details out of sensitivity to the victims …” That covers all, doesn’t it?

              Lawyers for the police union are ALREADY pushing for “worker’s compensation” for the cops who WILL all suffer from PTSD. Wasting no time whatsoever. More Obama dependents. As if it doesn’t go with the territory.

              And another thing: Remember the scenes of cops still looking for other gunman, AS CIVILIANS are traipsing around the crime scene? Is that LOGICAL protocol? Would you be carrying guns, clearing the area, but allowing parents to wander around, where they might get in the line of fire in case of a fire fight? It makes NO SENSE.

          • We don’t know who this eye witness was. I was referring to the anonymous guy who said he knows both Rosen and another woman mentioned in the news. (I forgot her name.)

          • You got it Miri, I’m in agreement. We’d have to go over every story to match up all the descrepancies and that’s why they are getting away with it. THere’s hundreds more things about this crime scene that we could call attention…like notice all the neatly stacked equipment laid out on stretchers…and like you said sometimes people with guns are acting like they are doing something importan and tohers doing nothing. ANd I expect the man chased into the woods( he could have come from the woods which we never see),but perhaps to capture anyone that wasn’t privy to what was really going on and make sure they didn’t see anything unusual, lest they leak it to the public.
            Furthermore, when a crime has been committed, like the one we think has been committed, not neccessarily the one that’s been hyped to have been committed; either way, when someone committs a crime, they usually want to go back to the scene or either do added things to it….they can’t always leave it alone……thus we have Obama giving out awards and bringing up the victims families. He’s the one that will not be able to let the issue go, not just for political reasons ,but because he’s criminal in this. Mark my words, just like pathological sadistic criminals go back to their dead victims, we have a sadistic criminal in the white house. Let’s see, he’s already killed around 200 or more children in drone strikes and likely ain’t through. Doesn’t seem the least bit remorseful does he…..a true inhuman egotistical psychopath….OBAMA

            • The “official story” about the guy in the woods is that he was a father who was trying to get to the school to see if his child was okay. I heard he was the man who was there early in the morning, supposedly to help make gingerbread. I forget who he was–his job, I mean.

  9. I read somewhere just today, alfy, that the school was only k-4?
    I read that nyt article you linked. HOW is it possible there isn’t a single photo (is there?) of a bloody child, adult, policeman coming out of the school? I’m not saying these guys are lying, I just don’t understand why things don’t add up. I read an article published that day in the Newtown Bee (online I assume) that said the med. examiner was done examining all of the children by 1:30 pm…and yet there were still people hiding in closets then? Isn’t that what the one parent who was in the meeting with the principal said?

    • Somehow, they must have kept photographers out but not civilians, who milled around while they were still looking for other shooters! And somehow none of the people there as first responders (who weren’t allowed to respond but who inexplicably set up a triage area within minutes) also didn’t use their camera phones, while they stood around being kept from doing anything. Now that story does tell us that the cops checked pulses, so I guess that answers for us who made the call that medical personnel were useless. Yes, we’re supposed to believe that there were still people hiding in closets, even AFTER the cops allegedly cleared the school. One woman said she stayed in place for 4 hours, so that had to be 1:30 p.m.

    • Yeah, like I’d hide in a closet for three hours…putting it about 12:30 or so before she ever came out. Right.
      And that’s the cleanest crime scene I’ve ever seen, not one thing is out of place from the strechers, the cleanest bunch of ambulance people I’ve ever seen, not one bloody glove, nothing on the pristine parking lot, but people and cars, not a sdirty shirt nothing. No rescue person appears to have ever even entered the building and no blood anywhere, so none ever even attempted to check and see oif someone was alive or could be repaired.

      • And the one and only Dr. , the cororner would not be the only person from his group to be there. Actually it was not even neccessary for him to be there as all the divisions of law enforcement could have pronounced these people dead….and then sent these children to the ‘good’ dr. later. You don’t need no stinking cororner at the crime scene. It’s nice when there’s one handy,but not needed. This was so staged .

      • I do think that somewhere, in all those videos, there’s a shot of someone carrying a child from the school. Whether that’s staged or not, who can say? That bizarre photo I posted earlier of the kid who looked as if he was made up like a zombie–I don’t know WHAT that was supposed to be. A victim, surely. Did you see the video that purports to be the truck that contained the bodies, leaving the school in the dark? I can’t remember if it was a truck pulling a paneled trailer or if it was a paneled truck, but one thing it was not and that seems odd to me, under the circumstances. Wouldn’t you expect that to be respectful they would take them out in a line of hearses?

    • No, I don’t see it. It was a man in uniform, carrying the child out of the school. In front of the school. Not many others in the photo, iirc.

  10. It has occurred to me that the one way some of the evidence might eventually become public is a civil lawsuit, and at least one of those would seem inevitable, right? And I knew I had heard something about one..so there was one filed (and then withdrawn a couple of days later) on behalf of one of the children who was NOT (physically) harmed, but traumatized.

    Normally I would think this ridiculous, but since I want the truth I am all in favor. Apparently the lawyer withdrew it, possibly only temporarily, when he learned some new information about the security system. Anyway I just found this…and found it interesting.
    Sandy Hook Civil Suit Withdrawn, For Now
    January 1, 2013 7:28 PM | Posted by Kent Scheidegger | 0 Comments
    A follow up to Bill’s post — Michael Mayko reports in the Stamford Advocate:

    Just days after filing a $100 million lawsuit claiming the state failed to adequately protect the students at Sandy Hook Elementary School, a New Haven lawyer has withdrawn it.

    But that doesn’t preclude a future filing, Irving Pinsky said.

    “I received new evidence on security at the school, which I need to evaluate,” Pinsky said Monday.

    Once that happens, Pinsky said he may re-submit the paperwork to J. Paul Vance Jr., who as the state’s claims commissioner has the authority to determine if a claim is justified and requires hearings. Vance must approve any claim before a state agency can be sued.

  11. Need to do more research, but it appears J.Paul Vance, the St. Police spokesperson is maybe a lawyer, not a cop?

    • Looks to me as if he didn’t even graduate from college. Two years at U of CT for “general studies” and two years at a community college. You don’t get a B.A. from a community college. LinkedIn says he went to the U of CT first and the community college next, not vice versa.

  12. Maybe they are father/son? The Lt. is J.Paul Vance, Sr? I thought they looked like the same guy but it could be a strong familial resemblance I guess.

  13. I just answered my own question. So, the lawyer/claims commisioner not the same guy who gave the press conferences, but is his son.

    http://danbury.patch.com/articles/lt-j-paul-vance-voice-of-state-police-seeks-survivor-spot

  14. Just to complete my thoughts on the shadows, I kind of superimposed the google map with the helicopter video, and the shadows are pointing essentially straight due north. I’m just not sure what that means, except that I am pretty sure it wasn’t taken during the shooting. Between 11 am and 1 pm seems plausible to me, but I don’t know how to figure it out.
    I tried to watch that video once, of the kid on Dr. Oz but it was painful.

    • I think they’re pointing due north, too. I was thinking about it this evening, too, and figured about the same thing–that it must be closer to noon. I’m sure it’s an exercise in trigonometry, which I stunk at. Any math whizzes around? I might go outside tomorrow morning, face northeast and see which way the shadows are pointing, although CT is quite a way north of here.

      SEO, was that Dr. Oz? I didn’t know. I thought it was some local show. That was painful, truly. Why did his mother have him there?

      • I’ll have to watch it again, but I’m pretty sure that was bigtime national Dr. Oz. and what was painful to me was watching the adults try to coax a narrative from that child that matches what they expect to hear, you know what I mean? Like when the other news anchors “pretend” Gene Rosen isn’t the strangest man ever (and they have to be pretending, right? I couldn’t help but imagine snickering going on off camera despite the sad situation).

        • yeah, Gene Rosen should get a major award for the most obvious actor of all time.

          • I have to admit that I was fooled by him the first time I saw him. It was only after I saw him again and again and again that it became suspicious. After seeing and contrasting the various videos and statements, it became more suspicious.

          • If he’s not acting, he’s just creepy.

        • I don’t watch Dr. Oz, but have heard of him, without really paying attention to him. I’m not sure I know anything of substance about him except that he’s sort of like a Dr. Phil type, right? Meaning he is well known and his show is watched a lot? So I looked him up just now and learn that he’s a Turkish-American named Mehmet (is this not a form of Mohammed?)

          Oz, teaches at COLUMBIA U, and was on Oprah’s show. AND he’s only a little over a year older than Barry. Like Barry, he’s a dual citizen. Oz actually completed his Turkish military service in order to retain/gain his Turkish citizenship! (How does one retain US citizenship after serving in the armed forces of another country?) There’s a thought, does Indonesia also have required service to retain citizenship? Lost year?

          http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1185906/bio Oz went to Harvard, but not when Barry was there. He appears to be quasi-Muslim, like Barry seems to have been raised Muslim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehmet_Oz

          “Oz is fluent in both English and Turkish. He is a holder of both Turkish and American citizenship, having served in the Turkish Army to retain his Turkish citizenship.

          He grew up in a mixed Muslim environment where his father’s family were conservatives who believed in the integration of Islam and government, [in other words, SHARIA.] and his mother’s family were more secular Muslims. He has been influenced by the mysticism of Sufi Muslims, as well as the ideas of Emanuel Swedenborg, the Swedish scientist, philosopher, and Christian theologian. He recently wrote in Spirituality and Health Magazine that “As I came into contact with Swedenborg’s many writings, I began to understand Swedenborg’s profound insights and how they applied directly to my life”. He mentions Swedenborg’s ideas that marriage lasts to eternity, everyone has a purpose in this world, God is love, and Swedenborg’s answers to “Why do bad things happen?”.”

          Oz is a practitioner of Transcendental Meditation. “When I meditate, I go to that place where truth lives,” he said. “I can see what reality really is, and it is so much easier to form good relationships then.” [But what RELIGION does he PRACTICE?]
          ######

          So is he part of the “campaign” against guns and in this instance it kind of went wrong when the kid blurted out “drill”? He and the mother distracted the kid from that line.

          At the beginning of the video, the “Dr.” clearly says that the BOY HIMSELF wanted to be asked what happened that day, but the child was clearly under stress and either couldn’t remember his lines or was upset to have to remember that day (or maybe just to be the center of attention on TV).

          I am continually amazed by how people are so willing to subject their kids to this. The money must be good, including the trip and the accommodations. Or else the politics are “compelling”.

          • Oz’s wife is on another daytimes show /sort of a home/cooking show with that fat blonde guy that’s does french cooking , a black lady , and the blonde gay guy that used to do the wardrobe makeover . I have no idea the name of the show, but she’s on there. Oz’s show is all about health , women’s mostly and nutrition, and medical stuff.

          • clearly , he probably did this for the network he works for?

        • SEO, the professor who was among the first to question the official story keeps updating his timeline. He speaks about the OZ video at Dec. 17, 4:00 p.m.: http://memoryholeblog.com/2013/01/06/sandy-hook-school-massacre-timeline/

          “A special broadcast of Dr. Mehmet Oz’s syndicated television program is devoted to the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre. Oz asks “Louie,” a Sandy Hook 3rd grader, “what you remember from that day.” “I remember that a lot–a lot of policemen were in the, uhm, school,” Louie responds. “Uhm, well, a lot–I was like [pause] hiding under–when we were having a drill we were hiding under, like … ” As Louie hesitates and takes several deep breaths, his mother nudges him while Oz taps the boy on the shoulder and changes the subject. “Take your time. There’s no hurry. Let me ask you, What would you like to say to your teachers?” Semuj1, Hurry–D/L Dr. Oz Interview, Sandy Hook Third Grader Louis ‘Having a Drill‘ – National TV,” Youtube, February 4, 2013; See also The Dr. Oz Show, “Dr. Oz Visits Newtown,” n.d.”

          Again, here’s where we talked about this on another thread: http://wtpotus.wordpress.com/2013/02/14/obamas-sotu-drival-is-proven-by-the-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-105107

          If you want to go back to the beginning, we first discussed it here: http://wtpotus.wordpress.com/2012/12/13/readers-choice-for-time-person-of-the-year-not-fluke-but-flake-kim-jong-un-open-thread/comment-page-1/#comment-100411

          • Here’s a question for you:

            larger

            That’s a picture tweeted by the Sandy Hook principal back in Oct. It’s allegedly of an evacuation drill at the school. Look at the Hartford Courant map of the school and then tell me where on that map these people are standing. I don’t see any dark roof that looks like that and which abuts any hill covered with autumn trees. The pavement has no markings that I can see.

            I do see, in the foreground, what looks like one of the women who survived–Becky Virgalla, reading consultant. She was meeting with the principal and school psychologist that day, along with five other people. She said on video that three of them rushed out into the hall when they heard the commotion, which they did NOT know were gunshots. So they didn’t go out to confront Lanza; they went out to investigate the noise and allegedly encountered him. They were shot and called back to the rest of the people in the meeting that it was a “shooter” and to “stay put.” Another story said that one of those three ran back into the room and she survived, too. Her name was Natalie Hammond. So only two bodies were in the hallway. Virgalla (or Vergalla) says the people who warned them of the shooter saved her life and the lives of four others who were in that meeting. So if that excludes Hammond, because she went out into the hallway, then at least 5 adults survived from that meeting. If you include Hammond, it’s six. Who are they? Are they talking?

            In that evacuation drill photo, there might be identifiable children and teachers. If none of the victims are identifiable, then one must wonder why they’re not present. I haven’t yet compared the photos. Tracy’s timeline has links to the Virgalla/Vergalla statements: http://memoryholeblog.com/2013/01/06/sandy-hook-school-massacre-timeline/

            • Synchronicity? This blogger is answering (possibly) the question I asked above. Where do you see that dark-roofed building on the campus of the alleged Sandy Hook Elementary school? The place where this drill was staged, I mean. This person suggests that they’re on the lot of the fire station. That occurred to me, too, thinking maybe they were supposed to evacuate to the fire house. However, this blogger thinks that the fire station WAS the school. http://sandyhooktruth.wordpress.com/2013/02/19/speculative-theory-about-the-sandy-hook-school/

              “… Sandy Hook Fire Station (Dickenson Drive)

              I’m going to list the reasons why I believe the fire station could have been the school.

              The images of the school “drill” posted by Dawn Hochsprung were taken in front of the exterior building at the fire station. Is there a logical reason why they didn’t line up in the school parking lot? …”

              Good point made later on: WHY would they BOTHER to take down the lettering identifying that building as the Sandy Hook elementary, while they fenced it off? Maybe only because they were creating that new Sandy Hook school, but still … If you’re keeping a crime scene intact, you don’t pull the letters off the building. Maybe they’re frugal and wanted to reuse the name at the new school. Reading the comments makes it apparent that the blogger also found a photo of the fire station with a sign in front of it, that matches the style of the fire house (white, e.g.), identifying it as the Sandy Hook Elementary. If the “fire house” was really the school, that explains why nobody sees 600 kids evacuated. There weren’t 600 kids. If the “school” was already closed, maybe the images showing the “school” with lettering on the side identifying it as Sandy Hook Elementary are from BEFORE or maybe they put them up and took them down just for the occasion. It’s apparent to me from reading that this was a school for special needs kids. One commenter suggests that the chain-linked fence was actually there that day, just photoshopped out of the images. That would be rather hard to do with overhead helicopter video, wouldn’t it?

    • that photo is not of the little girl that was supposedly killed. The little girl is wearing the sister’s(so called sister) dress. Notice the sleeves are long. Why they chose for her to wear it is probably suggestive and a reminder of the photo of the dead girl. They aren’t that stupidto put the same girl in a photo now that she’s been transformed to dead status. THe facts remain though that other thingsdon’t add up at all.

      • That story says he visited all the families and yet all we see are the Parkers with him and one scene where he holds a baby. The man in the background looks familiar, so he’s one of the usual subjects. Where are the other families? I understand if they didn’t want photos of it, but I’m still struck by the demeanor of all of those who are in the photos, considering the occasion.

  15. “Witnesses of the December 14 massacre, including parents, educators and first responders, testify at Newtown High School before state legislators serving on the Bipartisan Task Force on Gun Violence Prevention and Children’s Safety. Redding CT Police Chief Douglas Fuchs states: “By 9:45 that morning I found myself with two other Redding police officers and Redding EMF standing in the parking lot of Sandy Hook School.” First reports of shots being fired at Sandy Hook was at 9:35AM. The distance from the Redding Police Department to Sandy Hook Elementary is 11.9 miles and takes 26 minutes to travel at legal speed. Assuming Fuchs and his cohorts were traveling at twice the legal speed (120MPH) to the school it would take them 13 minutes to arrive at 9:45AM. This is assuming there were in fact calls for backup to surrounding communities. Mark Follman and Brett Brownell, “WATCH: Newtown Parents Speak Out,” Mother Jones, February 8, 2013.”

    That’s from Tracy’s timeline. http://memoryholeblog.com/2013/01/06/sandy-hook-school-massacre-timeline/

    Someone made an interesting comment there and asked why we heard nothing about organ donations, considering the lives that might have been saved and some good come from the tragedy.

    • OK, after reading some of the timeline stuff….and we’re told by police authority that Lanza had various weapons on him (different sorts according to who is telling the story, but the kicker is we’re told he had an extroidinary amount of amunition on….said, over a hundred more rounds and magazines. This I’d like to see…as Lanza looked like a skinny squirt…..do you realize how hard it is to carry that much amo? I doubt most people, except maybe gunmen who have thought about this statement. Let’s say you fill up your pocket book with ammunition …a fairly normal size pocket book , you’d be hard pressed to carry it very far or very well without listing to one side in a few minutes. Or fill up a shoebox with several boxes of ammo. and try to carry it. you’ll have a hard time of it your arms look anything like Lanza’s. WHere did he have all this ammo……not in his socks….as that would do him no good, he’s have to put down a weapon to use any of the ammo. Or maybe he had some in pockets in his sweatshirt. Anyway…do you see the problems ….there’s not way a kid could do much with all this ammo except lug it around, surely not stop and grab it and reload one of the many weapons he’s holding or carrying without putting something down or stuffing it where, while he grabs another weapon. If he had that much ammo on his frail body he’d probably fall into the building after blasting out the window (if he did).
      I know for a fact if you carry that much metal/lead/ect. on your body, you’d be hard pressed to do much else….and we’re told he did all this in about 10 minutes…..I would expect it to takes him five minutes to reload anything he had on him in his situation, unless he was an expert(not marxman) with weaponry and practiced very well and quick loading practices like swat and other training schools teach.
      I have carried less ammo than that and more than that, I know about the weight issue.

    • Papoose, Miri that is what I’ve been trying to bring to you all’s attention since last night. If you catch it at the beginning, which I think I finally did….she is at first standing against the building at the farthest back door of the firehouse, then leaning against the vehicle right there. She then turns and points her camera at the doorway, that’s when a girl comes out by her, and I see a slight bit of conversation from her to the lady , then she pushes at her with her hands. The lady turns around and proceeds between the two cars. It took a bit of checking back and forth to notice what else is going on at this time, but the girl turns almost immdediately back towards the back door and looks like she may have urged one of those blue jacket guys to check out the lady as then he comes out and of you can see most the rest as he confronts her. Others are actually not obliging her as well. A man in a brown suit coat. Another thing is an officer of some sort confronts her too. It is obvious she thinks explaining to them will help ,but she seems to be getting the same response. THe final officer that she goes to…it looks like she may think he has come to her aid, but he comes quickly over to her (as if someone has alerted him) and at one point he actually looks like he quickly pulls her off the the side and is urging her to scram or stop too. They almost look like they would like to take her camera as she appears to be having to protect it and turn or pull away from them. I don’t think she is against the ambulance looking for shade , as the guy in Papoose’s shots say ( remember it’s cold out). I think she is backing up there for security and she’s being lectured to, but she’s not giving up, that’s why the guy in blue finally lunges at her. I hope some one will save the best of the videos with this because it’s sure proof they didn’t want any outsiders. Some of the video of these scenes are not as clear. WHen the right folks observe what they have in these vids, I think they will be zapped so keep em safe,make copies, what ever.
      I think everyone was so busy watching the round and round circuit these actors were making , that this just didn’t get observed at first. I had hoped to find more of this lady, like when she first approached or how she left(if she was excorted politely or dragged out of the area, but the helecopter footage pans away back to the school. Maybe they saw how she left, maybe there is footage of this ,but it has been taken out, hmmm. Just a thought.

      • yes, alfy, i looked at it several times in blips because videos fry my pc within a few minutes. she is definitely being confronted, in my humble opinion.

      • I saw what you’re talking about. I suppose it could be read a lot of ways. She kept her camera, so far as I can tell; but then, we don’t know how she left or when, as you noticed. Obviously the one person with a camera was being discouraged. Could be suspicious or could be that they just didn’t want someone recording the families of victims. Who knows? Too many discrepancies and suspicious goings on.

  16. http://wtpotus.wordpress.com/2013/02/19/sandy-hook-massacre-the-saga-continues/

    I’ve created a new post with some updated information, because comments here are getting so long. I have linked back to this post from the new one, so that we can try to keep things together.

    • Miri, I think the tweet from the principal about the Safety Drill says it was at the fire station(?) I’ll have to look it up again.

  17. Nope, it isn’t in her tweet. I was sure I saw it somewhere though, maybe elsewhere on the school website.

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